‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

I've actually warmed to Hannah - speaking openly about male puberty and the undeniable physical effects it has. Doesn't seem to be a biology-denier.

She couldn't bring herself to say the word 'sperm' though when talking about herself, she repeated 'gametes'.

It's tricky, they do seem to be very in love and Hannah seems quite sweet, and it was sad when Hannah was saying that she never bothered freezing sperm because it never occurred to her that she would find love. I am glad they found each other. They certainly play the gender roles don't they, Jake definitely 'wears the trousers' - that bit where they wouldn't get out the car on the ferry (of course they had to get out, who do they think they are?!)

But there are some things that don't sit right. They still seem quite self centred in it all, Hannah annoyed that she feels left out, the kicking off about not being able to see the baby straight away, maybe Laura was asleep or something? Laura's children didn't exactly seem comfortable with it, but that could just be editing.

£15,000 for expenses for Laura - who comes up with that figure, is it tax free? What is that covering exactly?

Wasn't there a previous thread where it was pointed out that the kennel club rules around breeding female dogs are more restrictive than the laws around surrogacy (goes off to find old thread)?

We are treating pet animals better than human babies.

Pink clothes on the baby I see.

That tear rolling down the surrogate mother’s face was heartbreaking.

That's not to say

I like Hannah, Jake not so much. Why was Jake taking the lead with the baby? Surely it should have been Hannah, the mother, who held the baby first .. especially considering she already felt like an outsider during the process. Insensitive

Jake took the lead because it was instinctive for Jake, and not for Hannah. Jake was the one with the maternal/parental feelings.

You con't control natural feelings to fit in with the desired outcome. It will always be, i suspect, that Jake fulfils the more motherly role, and Hannah, the more distant paternal role.That's not to say that Hannah cannot grow to love the baby, but it didn't seem automatic.

I have talked about this many times on threads about surrogacy.

I used to be really pro surrogacy - so beautiful! A gift of life! How amazing!

And then I gave birth.

I was really ill after giving birth (massive pph) and spent the first few hours of dd’s life drifting in and out of consciousness. Dd was also looking a bit distressed and they were a bit concerned about her. The midwife got dh to place her on my chest so she could hear my heartbeat. And she immediately perked up.

I don’t think it can ever be right to purposely bring a life into the world and then immediately take it away from its biggest comfort.

Surrogacy is so exploitative it should be banned as so many other countries rightly do.

Laura is the birth mother yes but the birth will need to be registered in Ireland not England.

I think this might complicate things when it comes to the parental order, not that it will be seen as a foreign birth but because the biological connection is through Jake's eggs do not sure if he can be listed as the father, I'm not sure they ask, you just fill in the forms don't you? Not sure if you have to provide your birth certificate as the parent applying? Anyway if Jake has a GRC Jake will have a new BC with the sex marker as Male.

Very interested to see what happens, I'm sure we will be hearing more.

I know that a lot of women on the donor conceived boards here have decided not to tell their children they're using donor eggs.

I think that's wrong. The only reason to withhold that information is to protect yourself and actually it's not your information, it belongs to your child.

That’s interesting. I think it’s wrong too and I thought we’d left those days behind. One of my husband’s friends found out, completely by accident, that he was donor conceived when he joined Ancestry DNA and a whole bunch of half-siblings popped up. The truth always comes out. Admittedly easier when we’re talking about 1980s sperm banks, but it always comes out.

What are the chances of this baby growing up completely comfortable with their biological sex?

Slim to none. The precedent has already been set by other families.

will the baby latch on to her breast? That would be awful". Would it really be the worst thing? It would actually be a good thing for the baby. I'm not warming to Jake

I felt the opposite. that this showed, very clearly, Jake's instinctive understanding of the mother/child bond. should Jake and Hannah ever split, it will be Jake that has custody of the child.

I felt sympathy for Jake. Jake had all the instincts of a natural mother. Jake is the mother.

Just out of interest and yes I could Google, who is listed as the mother on the birth certificate in cases of surrogacy? It's the birth mother, isn't it?

I actually found them more likeable than i thought I would, especially Hannah.
I hope Laura is ok.
It looked like Jake was taking the lead, first hold, pushing the pram off in front, I can imagine Hannah feeling pushed out like she did at the beginning.
I think she might find it quite hard, its a unique situation to be in.

Poor little baby denied the opportunity to do that most instinctual thing and latch on to the only familiar human with all the comfort that would bring. It's just really cruel - even animals we have as pets are allowed to spend some days / weeks after birth with their mother (and it's acknowledged that if they're removed too soon it can cause behavioural problems).

'We need somebody to cook our baby.' 'She's not the mother, the mother is out here in the carpark' etc.

Are these direct quotes? Bloody hell - we might as well just call the surrogate Ofjake.

I like Hannah, Jake not so much. Why was Jake taking the lead with the baby? Surely it should have been Hannah, the mother, who held the baby first .. especially considering she already felt like an outsider during the process. Insensitive.

Me too NotTerf The trans element is important when it comes to biology and genetics obvs but the surrogacy part.
Laura holding back tears and then crying.

She must still have been in the hospital when they were on the plane.

It seems so heartless.

Laura has to go back to her kids and function. £15k on expenses (?!) and job done. Single mum. She will probably do it again.

I hope they stay in touch properly but who knows, you get swept up in a newborn and Hannah wants to occupy the role of the mother. I don't know. I'm not convinced.

*will the baby latch on to her breast? That would be awful". Would it really be the worst thing? It would actually be a good thing for the baby. I'm not warming to Jake.

I'm watching this and find myself uncomfortable not with the trans aspect but with the surrogacy. 'We need somebody to cook our baby.' 'She's not the mother, the mother is out here in the carpark' etc.

I've actually warmed to Hannah - speaking openly about male puberty and the undeniable physical effects it has. Doesn't seem to be a biology-denier.

Heartbroken for Laura

One minute talking about how different boys and girls are - boys are rough and tumble, girls are dolls and glitter - then saying that the nursery will be painted grey, nice and gender neutral. The colour of the nursery isn't going to make a difference with those raging gender stereotypes going on!