‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

More here

www.channel4.com/press/news/our-baby-modern-miracle-q-and-hannah-and-jake-graf-0

Hannah, you talk very openly about feeling insecure or inadequate as a woman who so wants to carry her own baby but cannot. Why did you want to speak openly about this?

Understandably, society sees carrying and giving birth to a child as one of the most intrinsic parts of womanhood and so being unable to do so can feel like your very identity is under threat. As a transgender woman I feel this very keenly as I am already frequently confronted by individuals who want to invalidate my identity, but the truth of the matter is that there are a plethora of reasons for women not being able to carry their own children who suffer the same shame and invalidation from the expectations of society. I hope that by being open with my experience, it might resonate with other women and perhaps give them some hope that you can still be a mother, regardless of how the child is brought into the world.

Didn't someone say that Hannah didn't have sperm frozen because they had no desire to be a parent? And now they have always wanted to be parents.

How is this all recorded on the baby's birth certificate?

I think sperm freezes/defrosts quite well but eggs, as well as not “harvesting” easily, don’t? So freezing embryos is an oft recommended option?

Does anyone else find it strange that Jake has the eggs fertilised with a sperm donor, so fully expecting to not meet a partner who would provide sperm to fertilise them, so perhaps is attracted to women and froze embryos, not eggs, in the hope that Jake would meet a woman who would be implanted?

Maybe I'm over thinking it. Hannah made no such plan to freeze sperm but it turned out Jake had embryos on ice and not eggs and they had a willing womb do it all turned out for them didn't it? I hope Laura is ok.

Sound more like modern slavery than a modern miracle.

This is the bit in the TV paper.

Gives I think the super special bit is that before Jake transistioned, their eggs were harvested and used a sperm donor. The embryos were then frozen.

Later Jake and Hannah became a couple and a surrogate was used.

So Jake is biologically the mother, (egg) but Laura will legally be the child's mother and then Hannah and Jake will be "mum and dad"

I agree with Wolfgrrl as well. I don’t think being loved is enough. I think when the sole purpose of your creation is akin to a vanity project: your mum used to be a man and your dad used to be a woman, when you have two parents AND a sperm donor AND a surrogate mother (did they use donor eggs too, or was the surrogate the biological mother?). None of that is good for the child. We all know that adopted children and children born from donor eggs/sperm can experience trauma and identity issues. Well, this child is going to experience all that and more.

I have two Dcs conceived by sperm donation. I don’t mind hearing views. Certainly not on this board which is always respectful. I chose an ID release donor so in theory the DCs can find out his identity but in reality we don’t know what will be possible when the time comes if he doesn’t want to be found. I would have gone further with fertility options if I had had to but I must say this board had opened my eyes on some of the issues around surrogacy so perhaps I would not do it now.

I don't really get the title of the program?

A male and a female individual donated eggs and sperm and used a surrogate to carry their baby to term. Its been done for years, how is that a miracle? Its not exactly an immaculate conception is it?

Honestly, they re-label everything to sound super special and unique.

I've actually just started a new thread as I'm intrigued to hear other people's opinions but dont want to derail this one!

Sorry so to summarise, given the number of MN users that have been through egg/sperm donation etc I thought I would get flamed.

@FloralBunting

Because if I am being brutally honest, i dont believe in any of the methods i mentioned above (aside from IVF in M/F couples). Or possibly if it was ethical sperm donation whereby the baby has some form of relationship with their biological father.

Your biological needs are incredibly powerful, to deprive somebody of knowing where they came from is to create a massive hole in their life from the outset.

Given the thread so far, no sure why you would think you'll be flamed, Wolfgirrl

@Wolfgirrl couldn't agree more.

I'm going to get flamed for this but;

This is all so wrong.

I really don't believe in Frankenstein-type science where reproduction is concerned.

It is nearly always for the benefit of the parents, never the child, who will always feel 'different' to their peers and have to emotionally come to terms with how they were created.

Obviously IVF babies are now adults, and sperm donation has always been around in one form or another... but egg donation, surrogacy, trans parents, it is one huge experiment on reproductive possibilities at the expense of the babies mental health.

Nobody ever advocates for the babies, it's all 'As long as you're happy that's the main thing'.

Yeah, miracle is now an elastic term that apparently includes renting out women's bodies so you can get a child to imprint your sexist values on. Wouldn't call it modern though. Misogyny is pretty traditional stuff.

This. I think that covers all I wanted to say, Floral

Oh and no I won't watch it, in the same way I don't watch sexual abuse of women on TV - why would I give a ratings hit for female exploitation?

That trans widow's exes could pose as the mother of a new child is a terrifying prospect.

turning a baby into a commodity

Not sure what is modern or miraculous about turning into a commodity to be bought and a woman’s body into something to be hired then cast aside.