‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

I'm not entirely sure someone with a self confessed alcohol problem and severe dysphoria, whose relationship with their parents broke down will make a great parent.

Wow Floral nail on head, as ever, I was trying to figure out what it was that makes Jake appear masculine.

I'm veering between quite rational sympathy for them - they've overcome a lot, and I'm genuinely happy for them that they've found each other - and rage about the way they constantly reinforce gender stereotypes.

"boys - you can throw them around, girls like dolls, blah blah" - just fuck off

I've observed that it often seems to be a feature of female trans people's gender behavioural expression that they will adopt many of the cultural trappings of masculine behaviour that are what might be termed in the US 'toxic masculinity'. I see it as a mirror to some of the exaggerated behaviour we can often see in male trans people.

They had a very rapidly moving romance, I always think that doesn't bode well.

That bit when Laura said she was asked to be a surrogate for nothing (by other commissioning parents) does that mean there is some kind of payment involved? The narrator said they were paying for expenses but I don't think that's what Laura meant and I wonder this as this is under Irish law, not UK law.

Jake comes across as a misogynistic prat, referring to Hannah as 'wifey' and ordering Hannah not to have a drink when they meet the surrogate.
Hannah comes across as very reserved. I think Hannah is the intelligent one of the couple. I can see that Jake will throw it back in Hannahs face that Hannah isn't a biological parent of the child if they ever fell out.

Willfully ruining your own body and then paying someone to have a baby for you is abhorrent.

Willingly giving up your fertility and then getting someone else to pick up the slack because you can't carry the baby yourself because of a decision that you made.... In any other arena this would be frowned upon and called 'selfish' wouldn't it?

In that same Q&A they say that Millie with know Auntie Laura and her involvement but the Drewitt Barlows said that and I'm sure countless other couples have said the same. Some would still have the surrogate mothers in their children's lives but there is nothing to make them tell the truth.

Whilst the original birth certificate wouldn't be changed a new birth certificate is issued once the parental order is cleared so it's feasible, if the child is confused enough about biology and their origins, that they could well believe they have Hannah as the mother and Jake as their father.

It's a question of whether, because of the GRCs, that they will take the respective mother/father roles in the parental order and subsequent new BC. Regardless of this, they will be raised in that way, to see their biological mother and their father and Hannah as their mother.

I wonder if a new BC looks different or there is any indication that an original one exists somewhere?

Oh yes it totally relies on parents being honest with their children @OhHolyJesus and I think that's really wrong. I haven't read it for a while but I know that a lot of women on the donor conceived boards here have decided not to tell their children they're using donor eggs.

I think that's wrong. The only reason to withhold that information is to protect yourself and actually it's not your information, it belongs to your child.

Given that Hannah and Jake's careers are founded on them being an attractive transgender couple with a child, I don't suppose there's any danger their child won't know their origins!

The thing is, under all surgery and pronouns, this is just a heterosexual couple.

It's not a miracle for a heterosexual couple to have a child. It's no longer a miracle for an infertile heterosexual couple to have a baby.

The only difference with these two is they gave up their fertility willingly.

And I don't think that at best, using an immoral act to conceive your child, at worst exploiting another human being to conceive your child, is anything to be celebrated. We also don't know what psychological damage removing newborns from their mothers has on them - but as a mother, I know that it must be traumatic for them.

We should actually be looking at this as a scary future. Don't worry about damaging your working body - you can just buy someone else's to fulfill your needs.

I’d as soon watch the Liberal Party conference.

Do they still have a conference?

I’ve just had to stop myself from getting into a heated discussion with a midwife at work, who was talking about the different kinds of families she sees now and how amazing it all is. We are a very pc Trust so I had to not get drawn in as you never know. She said it’s great that “men” can carry babies. Christ on a bike I said don’t you mean women? She said well yes but if they identify as blokes then they are blokes. No one appart from on here gets it. The younger ones at work act like I’m some kind of ignorant old lady.

And I think that Hannah comparing herself to an infertile woman is a manipulative false equivalence, but we have seen it many times before.

I do hope they are totally open with this child about how it came into being.

They may be legally recognised in their 'acquired gender' but I'm not sure how that goes for parental orders.

With MCConnell we know that it is a challenge to the naming of the mother on the BC.

The is Clymene I didn't realise that the fathers name could be blank, with donors that makes sense but it also relies on the parents, any parents, not just Jake and Hannah, telling the child the truth.

Donors in the U.K. are all registered so whoever provided the sperm from when Jake fertilised the eggs would be registered somewhere. He, the donor, is the biological father and Millie has a right (UN convention of the rights of the child) to know her parentage.

And yes, interesting point about who will be mother and who will be father. As they have GRCs, I assume they will go down as Hannah as mother and Jake as father because the child's actual birth mother will be on the original birth certificate.

Make? Jake!

The sperm donor isn't recorded as the father OhHoly. Laura will be the baby's mother and father will be left blank. At some point, make and Hannah will have to apply for a parental order at which point the original birth certificate is sealed.

Hannah and Jake will have the ultimate decision whether to tell their child their biological origins. If their sperm donor was in the U.K., their child will be able to contact him when they're 18. If the donor was outside the uk, that isn't possible.

Oh holy

It is so manipulative for Hannah to compare themself to an infertile women.

Both people made their transitions and each made decisions about “fertility preservation” before meeting each other.

How is this all recorded on the baby's birth certificate?

Good question, the sperm donor will need to be named as the father I think as all children conceived via donors are meant to be able to find their biological parents...and Laura as the mother until this is change via a parental order where Laura relinquishes parental responsibility.

This could be complex though as Hannah will want to be named as the mother and Jake the father in the parental order but this hasn't happened in U.K. law before and you can only have a parental order if one parent is biologically related, so that would be Jake as it was Jake's eggs and so that would make Jake the biological mother.

This will be a Freddie McConnelly type case. I do believe Andrew Spearman, Freddie's lawyer will be busy!

Parental orders haven't been challenged in this way before...