It gets worse - a new, fresh hell

Pre-pubertal bodies are not “genderless” or sexless, they are children’s bodies which are male or female. Phoenix wants a female child’s body forever. Is that gender dysphoria or is it fear of what comes with an adult body?

From the paper:

Phoenix’s new doctor feels that OPS is still too physically risky, especially with regard to bone health, and wonders if Phoenix has underlying psychological issues about not wanting to grow up.

Phoenix tells the psychologist that they highly value having a body that matches their gender identity. Alternative options, including low-dose testosterone, menstrual suppression and future ‘top’ surgery, are unacceptable to Phoenix because they do not believe these alternatives would accurately reflect their non-binary gender identity.

Phoenix's 'gender identity' appears to be 'child'.

Surprised this hasn't been a 'thing' earlier, certainly benefits one seemingly powerful group of people (men) to keep 'adults' at a prepubescent state while 'legal'

I know that inference is not allowed generally, but given the topic..its not possible not to say here.

Just out of interest does anyone know the success rate of getting pregnant from frozen sperm.

It's just, it can take quite a few attempts to get pregnant naturally. So surely even if you manage to get some sperm, and save a few shots, there's no guarantee that you'll actually sucssesful make a baby with it.

Or are they expecting any future partners to go through invasive egg harvesting and embreo implantation with lots of potential side effects to the woman. At the same time linning the pockets of the fertility clinics.

All this deliberate destruction of fertility and fertility preservation is creating a very lucrative industry.

Different meds as well. So definitely nothing you could draw expected results from.

I would imagine that the development of male secondary sex characteristics when off cross sex hormones and anti-androgens is a very individual experience, both for how much happens and ability to tolerate it.

Thank you Base, I clearly lose my English comprehension marks there..
So quite short periods of meds? And only half regained fertility..

One of the patients who elected to preserve their sperm after beginning therapy had been taking the drug Lupron—a sex hormone blocker that halts puberty when taken in adolescence—for six months. She elected to stop taking Lupron to attempt sperm cryopreservation. successful after 5 months.

The other was not successful after 4 months.
This patient had been taking estradiol and spironolactone for more than two years. Four months after stopping treatment, she was still unable to produce viable sperm, and at that point, she decided to stop trying for fertility preservation and proceeded with gender reassignment surgery.

Valli-Pulaski said. "If you have any data, it's important to share so that patients, researchers and clinicians can learn from it."

?????? stable door ?????

*BaseDrops” I only read the article you linked, so I don’t know how long these were on meds, and how long they were off meds, but one of the two produced viable sperm?

And right at the end the transition supportive doctor: "Right now, there's not much information available about fertility preservation for transgender patients,"

BaseDrops

Excellent point well made.

I can’t follow the logic that results in the conclusion that a non-binary identity = pre-pubertal body. I can understand that it could mean an adult body with a combination of male and female characteristics, or androgynous adult female body with say a mastectomy and hysterectomy or ovary removal or a male body with surgery to create an androgynous look like facial changes, removal of male pattern body/facial hair and shaved Adam’s apple.

This is none of those. Long term puberty suppression with no cross sex hormones or surgery will result in a pre-pubertal brain and body with at least expected adult height if not taller. Pre-pubertal bodies are not “genderless” or sexless, they are children’s bodies which are male or female. Phoenix wants a female child’s body forever. Is that gender dysphoria or is it fear of what comes with an adult body?

medicalxpress.com/news/2019-08-transgender-women-case-sperm-production.amp

This is interesting as it discusses two people who stopped different drugs to try to achieve stored sperm for fertility preservation.

It's hard to credit that we all live in a society that permits, encourages and celebrates maiming children, though of course it has happened and still happens elsewhere - foot-binding, FGM ..... It's even harder to credit that anyone speaking out even to question this goes straight to the pillory, potentially losing their career and reputation.

We are going to be rudely awoken from our woke state by a landslide of grief, fury and lengthy, expensive litigation.

As a mother who has had her 21 yo turn on her and demand "Why did you let me DO that?" (at the adult age of 19!) I can see it shambling over the hill out of the mist.

Its scary how much that mirrors Athlete A/Larry Nassar.

My own theory is this difference is why it is rare for males to detransition and why we are seeing an increase in female detransitioners. The girls brains go through puberty even with testosterone, the boys brains are puberty blocked.

Someone should tell these people that children are not assigned male or female at birth - sex is determined at conception.

I assume the adult clinic does not give puberty blockers as a treatment option, for the obvious reason that their patients would (normally) be passed puberty. Their treatment options are, I assume, cross-sex hormones and surgery.

Puberty blockers, also called hormone blockers, are also necessary for adults who transition if they haven't had their sexual organs surgically removed, in order to stop them producing their natural sex hormones.

The UK seems to be on-trend towards stopping this but America is going full Dr Frankenstein on younger and younger children, for anyone with the $$$.

Yup. And I'm sure some parents in the FB group discussed in this thread by 4th Wave Now would love to have a Peter Pan child to "complete the set", as one of them put it:

mobile.twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1203412783066501120

"THREAD: Families with multiple trans kids.

New leaked post (dated 4 days ago) from the affirming-parent Facebook group. Contrary to the original poster's conjecture ("rare breed"), a whole slew have 2, 3 or more trans kids."

It does definitely seem like a bit of a conveyor belt.

Something horrifying just occurred to me about the Tavistock GIDS puberty blockers experiment.

We know 50% of children referred there start blockers. We know that virtually ALL of those who start blockers progress onto cross-sex hormones. None desist. GIDS have admitted that.

But, we also know that GIDS does not treat anyone over the age of 17, and I think 17 (and 16?) year olds can push for referral straight to the adult clinic waiting list.

I assume the adult clinic does not give puberty blockers as a treatment option, for the obvious reason that their patients would (normally) be passed puberty. Their treatment options are, I assume, cross-sex hormones and surgery.

So that suggests to me that children who have had their puberty blockers don't really have any choice but to have either cross-sex hormones or/and surgery. If blockers are not to be prescribed for adults, then the children (with impaired cognitive function) would be given the choice of cross-sex hormones/surgery or nothing (ie desistance) surely? And desisting won't feel like an option to someone in a suspended state of child-ness.

If I'm wrong on that, then the only other option is that there are ALREADY adults in the UK who are still on blockers.

Someone tell me I'm wrong.

Because the only other option is desisting (which GIDS say none do), or hormones and surgery. And if hormones and surgery are the only options given to puberty blocked "adults" then no wonder so many young women are finding themselves post-surgery and wondering how the fuck they got there.

There's a researcher in Scotland who has looked at the effects on sheep brains, as apparently sheep brains are the closest in terms of organisation / puberty and various things to humans.

The effects aren't minimal and he's also looked at how there are differences in terms of impact on males and females, with (as usual) still some more research on females to be done.

Incredibly dystopian.

The UK seems to be on-trend towards stopping this but America is going full Dr Frankenstein on younger and younger children, for anyone with the $$$.

A fair amount is known about what happens to boys who don't go through puberty because of the castrati - boys who were castrated before puberty to preserve their singing voices.

Not going through puberty meant that they grew very tall, and they also often suffered from osteoporosis and curvature of the spine.

We don't know what happens to girls who don't go through puberty, because that 'experiment' is only just beginning.

Hi Charley, thank you. I wrote my post because I hadn’t seen your better one at 10pm, only an answered question from 9:25...
A NICE review would be ideal..

All we can do is an honest, transparent cost-benefit analysis. And that is sorely needed for puberty blockers used for children who identify as trans.