Single sex toilets at secondary (not a trans thread)

I would read ‘toilet block’ as male and female provision.

@redskittleorangeskittle my ds have been to a large state junior school (700 dc) and are now at a large state secondary school (1700 dc) and they both have a full time matron in school. Many of the other schools locally similarly have a school matron. When I queried it with the junior school HT when eldest dc first ent there, she said that it made sense as there were more than 800 kids and staff on site, there are forever accidents as kids fall over etc (so they call the matron down to deal with it rather than take the teacher away from the rest of the class) as well as managing all the medicines that get sent in, keeping track of absense of people off sick, send out reminders about nits and vaccines etc, go as another responsible adult on school trips, all sorts of things to keep them busy that makes them a sensible member of staff to have on the team even when margins are so tight!

Just looking at the updated government guidance for reopening schools it says

“toilets will need to be cleaned regularly and pupils must be encouraged to clean their hands thoroughly after using the toilet - different groups being allocated their own toilet blocks could be considered but is not a requirement if the site does not allow for it”

I guess in this case you could argue that it as it is not a requirement and the site doesn’t allow for it, single sex provision is more important.

I use sanitary towels which are not a large brand. Therefore the packaging is a little... ‘robust’ and it’s like trying to open a bag of crinkly crisps that have been superglued closed. Not at all possibly to do subtlety. And the paper strip on the back is similarly attached to the pad so much rustling, crackling and ripping.

Lifeafter50 - what type of school do you work in that has a full time school nurse on the premises? Is it a private school?

Sorry, I've read back now Thanks!

To my mind, this is an entirely different issue from the general one about unisex toilets. Schools are desperately trying to keep a lid on the virus in September. It's massive issue with huge ramifications for every element of the school day.
As a temporary measure, I think it's going to be necessary in order to create zones in some school. It's not great, but I don't see an alternative right now.

It’s because of zones and bubbles. Year groups are being allocated areas of the school that they will have all their lessons in, instead of moving around the school to different blocks. There aren’t enough sets of toilets in a school for each year group to have male and female facilities for their own bubble.

Genuinely don’t know how to solve this problem. Splitting breaktime so that girls can go the first half, and boys the second would mean hurrying up kids who haven’t finished, or denying entry to those who are desperate.

I used to be mortified opening my sanitary towel wrapper in the toilets at school (why have they got to be so damn loud?!) and that was at an all girls school!

that's terrible!

Is that their considered advice for, say, a child who is being verbally bullied (the 'sticks and stones' defence) or physically bullied ('man up' girl) or sexually abused (well he knows its wrong but he will just have to learn...).

girls' - wretched autocorrect!

I raised the problem of embarrassment around periods in a conversation with a young, woke, feminist teacher at the school where I work. Her response was that boys have to get over being immature about it, and that will never happen if we let girls continue to be silly and try to hide it. Great. Fortunately, it's a girl's school.

The local authority claimed it was temporary and as a response to covid 19.
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but can anyone explain why everyone using the same toilets is a defence against the spread of Covid?

Reminds me of the poster a few weeks ago who had seen all her local park women's loos go gender neutral (with expensive, clearly intended to be permanent signs). The local authority claimed it was temporary and as a response to covid 19.

I suspect a lot of organisations will find this a useful excuse, and after a while unless sufficiently awful things have happened in sufficiently high numbers to females, it will be claimed that there is obviously no issue to worry about and it will be set in stone as permanent.

So important to stand up now for women and girls. There will be no way to measure the number of female people who stop using these facilities at all, the girls who stop drinking to avoid having to go to the loo, the girls who school refuse when they have a period, the girls who start going during lessons or sneaking off site to use facilities somewhere else in the area.

Female people's embarrassment, anxieties, vulnerability to shaming and harassment from males, vulnerability to sexual harassment and intimidation or worse from males, matter too . As much as and equal too the feelings and needs of any other group, or any other priorities the organisation may have.

With regard to the pads & tampon things, when I taught in the U.K. the Head of PSHCE used to get sent boxes of 'sample packs' - presumably from companies that wanted product visibility - in fact ISTR san pro companies created some of the teaching resources she used.

She used to periodically (ha!) leave boxes in the girls' loos, on the windowsill. There was a machine too, but the box of freebies was a godsend if a girl didn't have cash/change.

Last year one ground floor block of the school was renovated & the m/f loos were converted into unisex accessible toilets - no trans identified kids, but a couple of wheelchair users at the school. There are still loads of m/f toilets nearby, so this was a sensible decision to be fair.

My mate can't leave san pro in these toilets. It gets trashed within hours & chucked all round the school. Presumably by the boys, since she's been quietly providing it in the girls' bogs for years without incident.

Having tampon / towel machines and enabling girls to have safe same sex toilet and changing facilities in schools should be a fundamental right - and that's what the law still states so any school removing same sex toilets is in breach of it.

You say mixed sex and unisex toilets but these are different.
Unisex is a self contained unit (toilet, basin and sanitary bin) and opens onto a public space.
Mixed sex should have floor to ceiling cubicles with shared basins. Each toilet will need a sanitary bin. Girls and boys are in the mixed space together.
Personally I don't think either are acceptable. Have you been over to Safe School Alliance to ask for help? They are on Facebook, twitter or contact via website. They have a fact sheet on this subject safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/ and another about sexism in secondary schools. Both of these should help you formulate a response to the school.
It is very worrying if schools do this because post Covid they will use it as evidence that it works. But for girls dignity, privacy and safety mixed sex should be avoided.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

You might as well say ‘open to all hair colours’ or ‘all star signs’

lifeafter

"Available to all genders" - this is part of the problem, the conflation of sex and gender. Sex is the terminology we need to consistently use - as gender is not a protected characteristic nor is it of any importance when it comes to toilets.
It IS unlawful to have mixed sex toilets with no alternatives for children over the age of 8.

Oh yes, I sent an email to several senior members of staff and the only response I got was 'who were the boys', but I did not know, I did not see who they were.... Also, without remodelling the whole school, what can be done? Me, I will just let girls use the loos in lesson time (and boys, if they are hopping about on one leg!!)

BUT when I spoke to my MP last week about the GRA reforms I mentioned it, that these 'open' gender neutral loos are a disgrace and girls are missing lesson time because they don't want to use them during break.....

Rabbit

JFC.

Have you taken this to management?

So crap for girls and young women.

You have a full time school nurse?!

In the school I work in all the toilets are being remodelled like this. They are all available to all genders. There is no 'loitering' because there is no common big space in the middle of that area (waste of space and encourages loitering indoors). There are basins inside each. The toilet doors are all just on a corridor so visible to staff and easy to police -only needs a staff member of either gender on duty. Much better system to protect children. No tampon machines. If a pupil doesn't have supplies she can get a towel from the school nurse.