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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What would you say to your young feminist self?

82 replies

jewel1968 · 25/07/2020 10:50

I came across some books by feminist authors (Atwood and French) I read when I was much younger woman and started to read them. It got me thinking about the woman I am today compared to the woman I thought I might have become. I have at times accepted some of the gender stereotyping without too much challenge but knowing in my heart it is nonsense.

Got me thinking about stuff and wondered if others managed to navigate life holding on to their feminist principles or if other women made comprises?

OP posts:
OfficeBird · 25/07/2020 16:33

I would say:

  • realise that being young and pretty got you some jobs (as well as being well-qualified for them)
  • realise that being over-40 and invisible stopped you from getting some jobs (despite being over-qualified for them)
  • when you first meet your in-laws note that they are a misogynist and a Stepford Wife and this is ultimately the marriage model DH will assume you will adopt. This will cause a lot of arguments.
  • when you are made redundant when pregnant get a solicitor who encourages you to challenge it, rather than take the cash and "go quietly"
teawamutu · 25/07/2020 16:21

You were right. Don't dampen down your inner voice because the 'right' people aren't agreeing with you.

BertiesLanding · 25/07/2020 15:05

Prepare yourself for how unpopular your opinions are going to be to a large number of people, but don't take that as proof that you're wrong.

CheeryTreeBlossom · 25/07/2020 14:56

I'm not sure what I would say, because it's probably everything my mother told me and half of it I didn't listen!
However I agree with some of the previous posters, don't be naïve, the battle isn't won.

The biggest shock was the pay gap in the workplace before kids/part time became a factor. To find I was paid less than a junior man because I was too 'nice' and didn't threaten to leave every 5 minutes made me so angry.
However I had to learn those lessons for myself, that experience propelled me to fight my corner more. Some of the most important lessons came from men, including one who honestly told me afterwards "why would I pay you more/hire another member of staff if you are happy to do the work of two people without complaint?". Knowing my worth and not allowing my female socialisation to stop me getting it was a key lesson.

But some things I did right - I was clear from the get go that I had no intention of my career being secondary to anyone's.
When I first met DH he said he thought it was important for kids to have a parent at home, as he had. I said he was welcome to be a SAHD when the time came, if he wanted that from a partner however then I wasn't right for him.
10 years later I work full time and he has indeed taken a step back at work to do the childcare.

So know what you want and don't be afraid to fight for it. Because no one else will. That's not just a feminist point but I think girls really need to know it.

BaseDrops · 25/07/2020 14:35

You are not paying attention to older women and mothers lived experience. You will regret this. You are not in an equal relationship where your career is respected and the domestic load is equal and just because it’s currently manageable does not mean it will stay that way or that it will be effectively renegotiated. You do actually know this but are kidding yourself on that it will be fine. Stop it.

Beamur · 25/07/2020 14:27

I think I would thank my younger self actually. She was pretty savvy. She was also pretty good fun and had her head screwed on ok. Made a few mistakes but has helped me be the woman I am today.
She did read Greer though, which helped.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 25/07/2020 14:05

Social indoctrination is compelling you to be polite to spare the feelings of men, no matter how many of your boundaries they stamp over.

Absorb this simple message, Previous Me. 'Fuck that'.

jewel1968 · 25/07/2020 14:05

I was watching the Greer documentary on iPlayer recently and thought that you don't often see women like her in the media nowadays. Can't remember the last time I saw a debate about sex discrimination. You get the odd headline or some stats produced but no deep debate.

I saw a few minutes of a health select committee and one of those being interviewed (think she was one of the health ministers) mentioned almost in passing that vaccination trials tend to be done on males and that it was an issue but no real passion in her voice and no apparent plans to change that.

It seems to me that somewhere along the way it became impolite or something to discuss sexism (and racism) and gradually the debate was silenced.

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Highwind · 25/07/2020 14:02

I have only recently started appreciating feminism (at 30).

I guess I always just assumed that the battle was won, and besides everyone would joke that feminists were lonely old crazy cat ladies ect.... I think the casual mocking held me back from ever looking at it seriously.

Now I understand why though....
Of course men who don’t believe in Women’s Equality would laugh and joke at the women trying to achieve it.
Of course they would try to ensnare the younger female generation to stop them continuing the fight.
Of course they would start rolling back women’s rights the minute women let off the pressure.
and of course they would try a different tactic if the results they wanted weren’t happening.

I would tell myself that just because a man has to accept you in his classroom and workplace, doesn’t mean he actually wants you there and it certainly doesn’t mean that if given the choice, you would be allowed to stay at the “big boy table”.

Michelleoftheresistance · 25/07/2020 14:02

"Boundaries, girl. For fuck's sake. And go and look up co dependency."

bluejelly · 25/07/2020 14:00

If you thought bring female in a man's world was tough, being a mother is much, much tougher.
Having said that, it is an amazing experience and so worth the sacrifice. Especially when your daughter grows up to be a strong feminist like you Smile

twoHopes · 25/07/2020 13:55

Germaine Greer was right

Seconded. I'm so glad I heard her speak about marriage before I got to the age where I would consider getting married. Thanks Germaine.

NotAGirl · 25/07/2020 13:45

Germaine Greer was right

YetAnotherSpartacus · 25/07/2020 13:07

Other women will fuck you over, even those who call themselves feminist. Don't believe that it is all sunshine and roses and sisterhood.

PligityPolopity · 25/07/2020 13:05

Don’t worry about being nice, pleasing other people. You are a person in your own right. whose own feelings and thoughts are worthy and important.
There’s nothing lesser about being a woman, rather than a girl.

dolorsit · 25/07/2020 12:39

Don't worry about being nice when expressing an opinion and consider older women's warnings even if they sound bat-shit crazy.

highame · 25/07/2020 12:38

Things don't always progress, it's not a ladder you've climb up and reached the top, somebody can remove the rungs.

Teach vigilance to those who follow

tilder · 25/07/2020 12:37

I would agree that the care giving role is central to the whole thing.

I love my kids deeply. Wouldn't be without them for the world. Having them has massively limited my career though. I've discussed it with my childless by choice female colleagues.

I don't buy into the 'you can have it all' argument. All the stuff has to be done by someone. Whether it's bringing in money, care giving, running a house. You do it yourself or as a couple or you outsource.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 25/07/2020 12:28

Pretty much what AngryResistor said. Also, you can still become that woman. It's taken me a while, but I'm just about there now, and I'm in my 60th year.

jewel1968 · 25/07/2020 12:25

I think I will share these thoughts with my daughter. Thanks all. Very interesting and insightful. Totally recognise the caregiving point.

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Antibles · 25/07/2020 12:23

Hah! Yes giggorata Women's rights are not written in stone.

Antibles · 25/07/2020 12:22

I've watched so many of my friends go from confident, happy independent women to spending all their time cleaning and tidying up after their husband and kids. Their social life, hobbies, interests and careers all sacrificed for the rest of the family.

This. Having children is the moment it all changes for the worse. Starting the nuclear family set up with a romantic partner is the building block for the independence and energy disaster which can unfold once the kids arrive. Kids are also the moment you can morph in a man's eyes from partner to opponent, because of what you will need from him that he may not want to give - and I never saw that coming.

Even if the career isn't sacrificed entirely, you will be seriously exhausted by the battle to maintain it, get all the other stuff done, and fight with your new enemy unbeknownst to you partner to get him to do his fair share.

Giggorata · 25/07/2020 12:17

I would tell my younger self:
“Don't ever ease up and think we’ve achieved women's liberation, even when it looks like it. Misogyny and patriarchy are just going to creep back, wearing a different face”

tilder · 25/07/2020 12:12

jewel1968 I dont know how old i was when i first came across feminism. Or became aware of what it is and why people campaign for it.

My parents treated my brother and I equally, but they had (have!) a fairly traditional marriage. My mum stayed at home until db and I were at school. Then worked. I don't remember childcare though. My dad has always had a job with a higher earning potential. They prioritised his career. I remember sitting at the table and saying his job was more important because he earns more.Blush

I read Cosmo in my teens but was more interested in horses than boys. Went to uni. Did a science degree. Got a job.

I don't think sexism that directly affected me really featured until then. It was a real shock the first time. I had been raised to be equal. That my opinion mattered. It was a shock to find that there are expected roles that women fill and my job didn't match.

Only from the die hard traditionalists though. I though my immediate colleagues were enlightened.

Was very surprised when our gender pay gap was published. Big company. Lots of degrees. High end jobs. Progressive people. 40% pay gap.

One of my colleagues, junior and male, said it's because women choose those roles. And work part time.

So yes. I would say don't be so naive.

Sorry for the epic post!

twoHopes · 25/07/2020 11:48

I guess as a young person I spent a lot of time thinking about how the patriarchy pushes women into wearing heels and make up and shaving their legs. All of this is important to debate but I had the dawning realisation as I entered my thirties that this really is not the biggest battle to fight. I now realise that the biggest battle, for me personally, is the societal expectation that I, as a woman, will be ultimately responsible for care giving. Whether that be for children or for elderly parents. I've watched so many of my friends go from confident, happy independent women to spending all their time cleaning and tidying up after their husband and kids. Their social life, hobbies, interests and careers all sacrificed for the rest of the family. I know there are women for whom this isn't the case but they are still so few and far between.