Gay/trans false equivalence

It's not extra rights women have. It's extra protections because males as a group are prone to not respecting women.
It continues to be the case.

These rights enable or are supposed to enable women to participate equally in life they're not special privileges unless of course you think owning property or having a job or having somewhere to change at work is a privelege. All things afforded to males without question.

What is it about females having the space away from males that bothers male bodied people so much? What do you think will happen of men cant keep an eye on us getting dressed?

😂🤣😂

💥

Never thought I'd say this, but please, do keep telling the women on the feminist board that you think their rights are 'privileges' that they shouldn't have. I will not stand in your way.

Because being trans isn't a sexuality... it's nothing to do with who they want to have sex with.

*Milady
*
I don't understand what you're asking.

Can you give examples of rights that women have which aren't directly related to their biological needs eg pregnancy care and sex specific cancer screening? I can't think of anything.

I don't think I've ever heard of women being considered 'privileged' as a class. Can you explain what advantages we currently have compared to men?

Thanks.

I get it, people with privileges don't want to share them. It's always been that way.

And no, I don't think anyone should be given additional "rights" just because of their biology.

the TRA's have very successfully ambulance chased the gay rights movement, right into the very heart of society.

TRA has northing in common with gay rights movement and people are very slowly waking up to this.

Also TRA mantras such as "acceptance without exception" and the push for drug/hormone blockers etc is both not accepting without exception (if you accept yourself why the need to change your body with drugs and surgery) AND in so many cases it is a form of gay conversion therapy. We now know if left alone many teenage trans/binary types grown up to be gay adults.

They hide in plain sight, disguised by the faultess rainbow and associated flags, and all the uncritical thinking liberal/lefty backslappers.

womens

Weird auto correct there

So if you can't have wonena rights then wonens rights shouldn't exist?

Isn't that what toddlers do?

Milad, are you asking why women should have rights? Are you calling women's rights 'privileges'?
I mean, crikey, it's bold of you to be quite so open. I appreciate it. You're doing great work here.

So why do you think a person should be given special "rights" (or "privileges" to be more accurate) on account of her biological sex?

"As far as I'm concerned, sex and gender mean the same thing, and this is essentially a social role. I don't believe that a person's reproductive organs should define their identity or the kind of person they are allowed to be." MiladyRenata

Your second sentence directly contradicts the first.

Gender is a social construct which suggests that certain personality types, activities, modes of dress etc are only acceptable in people of one sex or the other.

If you understood the difference between sex and gender, perhaps you'd understand why feminists find the concept of gender identity unacceptable.

LGB 'rights' were actually an extension of the basic human rights that straight people enjoyed that were denied to LGB people. Lesbian and gay people are easily defined as those who have same-sex sexual attraction. They're a discrete group.

Until relatively recently LGB were excluded from some of the rights that straight people have taken for granted. Things like the legal recognition of lesbian and gay relationships which enabled couples to do things like pass on pension rights and inheritance rights in the case of death. Employment protection. The right to adopt. The right to serve in the armed forces (did you know that until 2017 it wasn't actually legal to be in the merchant navy if you were lesbian or gay?) The right to goods and services regardless of sexuality. There'll be others I've forgotten.

Allowing LGB people those rights didn't infringe anyone else's. A few cases (religious B+B owners who didn't want to have to accommodate lesbian or gay guests, the bakers who didn't want to have to ice pro-gay slogans on wedding cakes) came and went and most people got over any initial qualms. Life didn't really change.

Stonewall had actually succeeded in its aims and won equal rights for LGB people and was facing redundancy when it took on the T. The slight problem they faced was that transgender people have exactly the same rights as every other citizen. So they had to push for extra rights.

The extra 'rights' they are seeking are 'rights' that impinge on the rights of others — particularly women and girls who have always had and continue to value female-only spaces and provision. Trans rights also adversely affect women and girls when it comes to sport. Trans rights activists want to compel people to use language they don't agree with to express beliefs they don't hold and which are anathema to them — like requiring Maria McLachlan to call her male attacked 'she' in court or risk imprisonment for contempt.

And of course on top of this is the fact that lesbian and gay attraction is pretty clearcut and discrete group of people. Whereas 'transgender' means... what? The transgender umbrella is so wide that the word is virtually meaningless. It can embrace everyone from an old fashioned post-op transsexual living a quiet life with a GRC to someone who cross-dresses at the weekends as a sexual thrill or a young woman with short hair who calls herself NB, has a boyfriend and sometimes requests that we address her as zhir instead of 'her'.

On top of that you have to take account of the fact that no one had anything to gain by pretending to be gay or lesbian, while I think it's become clear that sexual predators and criminals and men's rights activists and misogynists who hate feminism have pretty quickly cottoned on to the potential advantages of declaring themselves to be transgender. There are things to be gained by becoming trans: they include access to female space and the means to dismantle women's hard-won rights from within. Look at how the Women's Equality Party was almost immediately invaded by transwomen.

This is why it's really stupid to compare LGB rights and trans rights.

Oh and OP, there are 2 new articles in Feminism Chat from the Journal of Psychiatry (thread called something like that) which are linked to this topic.

@FloralBunting - that is such a sad story Floral. I hope you have some loving people in your life now. Of course it is so, so, wrong for TRA's to appropriate your trauma to bully people, but we all know, they appropriate the lives and experiences of women every day for their own agenda.

Also want to send you my love and

Can we all just appreciate that homophobic tropes like that a male person can be a lesbian are being promoted by the trans visitor on a thread where the realities of gay conversion therapy have been discussed.

I mean, I welcome all voices to make their case, but I do want people to see very clearly what is being said here, and what that means about standard trans ideological perspectives.

As far as I'm concerned, sex and gender mean the same thing, and this is essentially a social role.

Go tell it to the pregnancy forum. Are you trolling?

As far as I'm concerned, sex and gender mean the same thing, and this is essentially a social role. I don't believe that a person's reproductive organs should define their identity or the kind of person they are allowed to be.

The protections in the equalities act prevent people with protected characteristics from being discrimination. They are carefully balanced to protect everyone.

Gay rights resulted in equal age for an adult sexual relationship and equal right to marry. The ability to adopt or foster children was also made equal. The only people who lost something were people who wanted to discriminate. This is exactly the same for religion, disability, sex, pregnancy and maternity and gender reassignment.

Someone who self IDs or who holds a GRC wishing to have the right to be treated as the legal sex they are not in every facet of life goes beyond the existing equalities act which has specific areas where this does not happen in order to balance competing rights. These competing rights are not the right to discriminate. They are the right to bodily autonomy, dignity and effective safe guarding. The accurate recording of sex is the key to safety in vulnerable situations and sport, the ability to track statistics which inform policies and practice to alleviate and tackle sex discrimination.

My request to have a woman perform intimate medical care is about my right to bodily autonomy. I have the legal right to a same sex medical professional because this is an example of where someone whose rights are protected under gender reassignment by being treated the same as all members of their actual sex.

If this changes to someone male appears, I refuse and am now guilty of gender reassignment discrimination
my previously protected right has been removed and attempting to exercise it is a hate crime.

My right to have a female medical professional inserting a speculum into my vagina for necessary medical screening would be treated as discrimination comparable to sacking someone for being homosexual.

I don’t think they are comparable.

If your friend says "I like pizza," you take him at his word.

If your friend says "I am a pizza," you form your own opinions on the matter.

Ultimately the trans movement is based on denying reality and all the horrible and absurd consequences of the trans movement follow on from the denial, and from coercing/cajoling/bullying other people into going along with that denial.