Gay/trans false equivalence

I’ve got it.

‘Oi, stop discriminating! Who ever you were going to discriminate against, just don’t.

Right then, that should be sorted now. Let’s all go and pour a drink and enjoy our new non-discriminatory world.

No just a grip on reality

If you think equality of opportunity favours men, you must have a really low opinion of women.

How would this Equality of Oppportunity Act work? And what would make it better for women than the current Equality Act?

Remind me what the difference is between MRAs and TRAs?

Go on Milad. Tell us more, we’re all listening.

An equality of opportunity act would most benefit those who already have structural power: the white, male, educated, able-bodied

Bingo

You would have to be confident of being OK if you were to advocate fir this.

Theres only one demographic that would be OK.

This would be funny if I didn’t think Mil didn’t seriously believe women are not disadvantaged in the world just by the pure fact that they’ve women

As it is it’s not funny, it’s enraging

No affinity, no empathy at all

then women will be fucked then won't they.

But you know that

No, but I'd replace it with an Equality of Opportunity Act, which would outlaw all forms of discrimination, including so called "positive action."

Along with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Oops

Except guess who walks away unscathed. Who is gonna be just fine if the equality act was done away with . And be just fine no matter how they present

And they know it

Along with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Oops.

That should read 'a whole raft of things ended'

Sappho, I agree that churches do shitty things to people who don't conform to their worldview. I would very much like to see a whole raft of things that are pure quackery under the Christian banner, including the sort of gendered nonsense counselling you describe. Only today I'd been having a conversation with a conservative Christian woman who seems to think that the answer to all this is to just push innate stereotypical gender roles even harder, and I've been making the case about how damaging that is. I remember when I was on twitter there was a 'gc' poster who thought I was a TRA because I let my son wear some of my clothes and play with teasets and toy babies.

I really don't think that is primarily what is in view when TRAs talk about 'gender conversion therapy', because when I first started posting here about the watchful waiting approach we took with my daughter, who was at the time dealing with identity issues, I got called a child abuser by a TRA. And whenever feminists outline the approach we take with gender questioning kids, the squeals of protest make it very clear that helping a distressed child express themselves without judgement and come to terms with their body issues is exactly what is meant by 'gender conversion therapy'.

I agree that anyone who doesn't conform to the norms in our society will face difficulty. But that is the case with many differences from the norm. I don't see why being gay and being trans are any closer than any of those other differences, though.

Please explain your reasoning which results in the conclusion that one of the 9 protected characteristics of the equalities act does not need positive action to address documented persistent inequity?

The bottom line is that while I wholly respect your belief that TWAW, I do not believe this.

I believe absolutely in trans people expressing themselves however they choose, in being fully protected from discrimination or harassment, in having additional services and facilities that meet their specific needs and remove their barriers in the same way that all groups with additional specific needs should have.

But this must be done without the pretence that female people have ceased to exist or have any separate need from those born male, being allowed nothing that male born people cannot be fully centred in and cannot control, female people's words to describe and express themselves and the specific experience of living in female biology being redefined to centre and prioritise the needs of those born male, and the colonisation of all female only spaces with the pretence that this does not exclude some females from any services or provisions so that male people can have their full choice of all the provisions.

TWATW. And that is great. That is fine. Female people are not TW. They are not the same thing. And TW trying to erase the reality of female people existing as anything separate for their own benefit is an act of profound misogynistic oppression, no different to any other male oppression throughout history.

So, can we clarify here, because I'm confused - is Milad objecting to AWS when they say they think women's rights are privileges? Because as I said, I'm fairly sure AWS weren't part of the discussion before that particular statement.

So how do you tackle SEX based discrimination if you remove the positive discrimination implemented to counter act it?

Hi @withgraceinmyheart

As it happens, I'm a classical liberal and, as a believer in the merit principle, would be delighted to see the end of any form of gender based discrimination, including quotas and all women shortlists. This applies whether or not trans women count as women.

Just caught up on this thread. First of all for Floral. Having been through similar (but nowhere near as bad) I can confirm the church's treatment of gay people can be incredibly backward and damaging. The church I used to go to would have done similar for a trans person too (lots of prayer that the individual could accept the sex they are rather than transition). So rejection by Christianity is one similarity.

Obviously there are big differences between being gay and being trans already outlined on the thread.

The other similarities are being born 'different' to most people and having no control over it. Most gay / trans people try and deny and suppress being gay or trans before they admit it to themselves and others. Many have been made to feel ashamed.

I think both gay and trans people struggle to live their lives happily and authentically unless they come out.

Prior to the GRA people lost the ability to be treated as their acquired sex because a man did not want to financially support his model ex-wife. Who was a transwoman.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbett_v_Corbett

Seriously. This isn't difficult.

Despite having a GRC, exemptions are still allowed. Because no one, unless you're three or four years of age, believes that a person can actually change sex.

mil

So you do agree that women have to have certain rights based on their sex?

You just don't like the ones specifically designed to address sexism? The unequal balance between men and women, because of patriarchy.

As I said, identify as, but no affinity with.