Update on my case, and on exactly how much Girlguiding is spending of their money

@Saxa23 "OP if you want support, you can’t go about spouting things you don’t actually know."

Oh the irony. This is the equivalent of #bekind - despite your "inside knowledgel you have failed to address where the funding for this is coming from if it isn't being (wholly or partly) funded by contributions from parents etc.

The subs for DD's unit are over £1,000pa

Not just aimed to intimidate by the costs but also number of lawyers -

It's as if they watched Erin brockovich and completely misunderstood the message about such tactics in that!

It's a trashy cheap way to behave actually - however much they're spending!

I'm from a long history of guiding and went right through guiding myself including being a leader for several years.

I'm thankful I'm not personally having to deal with this as a leader but am wholeheartedly supportive of @KatieAlcock in her endeavour if it's allowed could someone please pm me donation info? Unfortunately it won't be a huge amount but I'm thinking every bit helps?

I was also a victim of csa at home and similar to pp guiding was a safe haven for me, it should continue to be so because god knows there's sod all being done elsewhere to protect girls like we were!!

Hell its even just relaxing to be in an all female social space away from the male gaze!!

dial

It was on aibu

Maybe not parents, Beamur , but IME, leaders are very much aware.

Like I said, if this is insurer driven, then they are not going to be looking at GGUK's beef with Katie alone. They will be looking at the wider implications for all the institutions they insure, who may have similar indirect discrimination claims made against them. A case like Maya's or Katie's may set a precedent that opens the floodgates for claims against all employers; on grounds of discrimination in respect of beliefs hitherto not deemed to have a protected status.

I very much doubt many Leaders, let alone parents are aware of this.

And "welcome" is probably the wrong word - "open" to both is probably better. Both my DC have been through Beavers and are at Cubs, with male and female participants and leaders. The point is that people actively choose to join the mixed sex organisation, but that isn't right for everyone and they should also have a choice.

The annual census (the collation of current members and monetary contribution every Guide and leader has to pay to GGUK) was carried out and collected prior to lockdown. The "subs" are a separate amount that units collect every term to pay for activities. We will not demand subs unless we can run meetings and therefore have activities to pay for; but the annual census amount is a fixed sum, so if girls want to stay in our unit until things return to normal, they will have to pay this (as will we leaders have to pay, for the pleasure of volunteering to keep the Girl Guiding movement going).

Thank you for doing this Katie. You are brave and mighty and right.

Why aren't they looking to settle this with less fuss and expense?

Because if they do a U-turn it will be seen as an offence against the gender identity ideology and they'll be punished by very nasty people who wield a lot of power. They'll be worried they could end up on the same shitlist as JKR.

Katie, congratulations on today's outcome. They gambled and lost. Your first victory.

I'm not at all shocked at the costs they're running up. I'm not a lawyer but I've had experience of being in your position. Even if the Guides win (and I don't think they will) I don't think as a private citizen they will be awarded maximum costs. This is something they pretend will happen in these David and Goliath cases to scare the bejaysus out of you but if there's merit in your case the judge is unlikely to want to penalise you for raising a valid issue and will take into account Girlguiding's decision to throw a shedful of money at the situation.

Should I be wrong and the worst happen we're here for you. You're not alone. There are thousands, hundreds of thousands, of us behind you and together we can raise the money you need.

Sending you loads of courage and strength to help you get through this. It must be dreadful. My heart goes out to you and all the other women taking this burden on. You're not alone.

Given GG haven't been able to meet since March, their income must have taken a hammering.
Why aren't they looking to settle this with less fuss and expense?
Presumably staff are furloughed in the main?

It is extremely worrying for an organisation that deals with children to ignore safeguarding concerns, brush them under the carpet and get rid of people who raise them.

This.

I didn't see the other thread. Was it ion another board?

Saxa23 I understand your stated frustration- it’s hard to be a leader and harder than ever in current times with financial pressures on parents and extra legal stuff and conditions around meetings - but it’s out and out wrong to say subs aren’t bring used on HQ legal stuff. Don’t spread disinformation even if you think the thread will disincline people.

Most people will act as individuals on behalf of their individual children. I know I am, even though I stand with Katie on the importance of what she’s doing. I’ll pay double subs to her fundraising to have my voice heard at the same time my DC keep attending. Perhaps that’s hypocritical but I don’t want it to close down - I want GG to shore up its single sex status or publicly revoke it to mixed sex. Not this fucking back-door gender bullshit.

I’ve spent a while today deconstructing with my DD the TikTok message of empowered enlightened kids preaching JK Rowling is generally toxic and hates diversity. This stuff isn’t easy and GGUK are spending thousands of pounds of charity money defending something antithetical to their stated aims to avoid uncomfortable conversations.

It’s bollocks.

GirlGuiding as a space for empowering females - great. GirlGuiding being unable to define boundaries over ‘female’ - not great. Bad. Really bad.

Interesting isn’t it? I typed out a massive reply on the other thread and it disappeared.
Amaaaaazing how many ‘women’ appear to yell about the temerity of someone fighting for a valuable sex-based safe space for girls to explore and grow, outwith the pressures of the male gaze or being subjected to stereotypical gender pressure because of their sex.

Even parents who disagree with the details of this case should agree with the decision receiving proper scrutiny.

It is extremely worrying for an organisation that deals with children to ignore safeguarding concerns, brush them under the carpet and get rid of people who raise them.

It is extremely important that safeguarding concerns are always reported and dealt with honestly and openly.

If parents haven’t been informed then this implies there is something to hide. Parents should be concerned about this, regardless of the details. Child protection is always the overriding concern. Always.

Katie has posted a number of times about her case, yet these threads have been fairly quiet and populated by FWR regulars in the main. Then, on the day she posts about a court hearing earlier in the week, her thread is flooded with complainants. Why (and from where) the sudden interest?

Thank you Katie. I know there will be lots of people willing to help. I will look up your crowd funder again soon.

Mnhq said above they had closed this thread to consider something. It seems to be open again even if other threads have gone. The fact that it has generated complaints shows that people understand how important it is. Take courage you have lots of support.

There have been a number of sackings and high profile deplatforming, much of it involving persons who are GC. Insurers representing institutions and employers - universities, bodies like GGUK - will be aware, and hopefully alarmed that many of these institutions have adopted policies that discriminate against fundamental beliefs, breach the EQA and indirectly discriminate against other sections of society protected by the EQA; e.g., Muslim girls being excluded from Guides because of the presence of the male bodied. Maya's and Katie's case could result in the floodgates opening. Insurers will be doing everything they can to squash these cases before they get to trial. That's why I will be digging deep and hopefully others will too to keep these cases going.

Using attrition as a litigation strategy is well known. It's risky because it depends on the judge, some judges are a bit rubbish and the offending side can get away with it while other judges, more conscientious and aware, will penalise such an abuse of process.