Update on my case, and on exactly how much Girlguiding is spending of their money

Good news for you today, Katie?

Have dug Katie, you’re doing brilliantly

(Having gone to an all girls school I’m frankly amazed I managed to miss all the marauding lesbians that are apparently roaming around everywhere🙄)

Sorry to hear of your troubles @KatieAlcock have made a small donation. I heard about it on Twitter by the way in a shoutout for support. So it's getting plenty traction.

I hate injustice, bullying and cruelty. And that's what this is. Power to you.

Bold fail, sorry @IloveJKRowling

I suppose there may also those who may be dubious but think 'it's not affecting me at the moment', not realising the long-term implications and safeguarding problems

YES! I think this is it for a lot who are vaguely aware but don’t really know what to do or who to discuss it with.

It’s people volunteering their time, often juggling children, work, elderly parents etc so it’s ‘easiest’ just to ignore it until it actually affects you or someone you know personally.

Will add to the dig later Katie to help with the fight.

Thanks Katie - I suppose there may also those who may be dubious but think 'it's not affecting me at the moment', not realising the long-term implications and safeguarding problems.

I was not prepared to be the person on the firing line of something went wrong under a policy I don’t agree with so resigned as unit leader.

Do many leaders know about their policy on mixed sex accommodation (the deception and lies)? Given they're not keen on transparency with parents or girls around safeguarding, presumably they're also not transparent with leaders? Because I'd think a lot of women would want to leave for the same reasons if they knew.

I was a Brownie leader for over 10 years but stepped down at earlier this year for a couple of reasons but a major one was about GGs policies regarding self ID, mixed sex ‘camps’ and parental consent.

I have daughters who have both been involved in Guiding, 1 of whom was sexually abused repeatedly at the age of 9 by a 10yo boy. She is now 18 and we have talked a lot about what happened to her and how she would have felt sharing sleeping accommodation with a male bodied child after the abuse.

She is very ‘woke’ but is adamant that she would have reacted very badly to being in mixed sex accommodation in the first few years after the assaults.

I emailed GGUK to ask for advice and outlining my concerns a couple of years ago and have kept it all. Initially I was told to raise my concerns with the unit leader. When I pointed out that I was a unit leader (not hers at this stage) and wouldn’t be able to respond to identical parental concerns, the response was inadequate. Although I was delighted when GG revised their policies regarding transboys and XX non-binary young people.

I was not prepared to be the person on the firing line of something went wrong under a policy I don’t agree with so resigned as unit leader.

On the bright side, Scouts - with their clear mixed sex guidance - have got themselves a new leader

@madwoman1ntheattic this is unhealthy if this is the way GG is managed (irrespective of the safeguarding issues). Organisations don't thrive when there isn't a healthy two and fro from management and other layers, clear lines of communication, scope for dissent within reason, encouragement of horizontal relationships... I get the sense that they are unaware or dislike modern management concepts, and there is a strong whiff of paranoia in what you've described.

They won’t let volunteers discuss this. They got REALLY pissed at a group of guiders who were in a closed social media group that said they weren’t happy. As a volunteer you can’t guide policy (or even comment on it) if you are prevented from talking about it and asked to leave if you disagree.
I can (sort of, and have obviously donated) see that in terms of ‘bringing an organization into disrepute’ that GG would see that dismissing volunteers who whistleblow in the press is necessary, but if you have shut down all means of raising safeguarding concerns such that going to the press is the only way to raise them and make sure parents are aware, then you aren’t looking after your youth or adult members effectively and deserve to be legally challenged. (On any number of fronts, but dismissing volunteers for believing in biology included).

This is all frickin madness. @katie I know from personal experience that it's the volunteers spearheaded by the Chief Guide who make the decisions at CHQ. The staff members wouldn't be able to do anything without their agreement.

DD scouts and I don’t so I don’t know the policies.
In practice there seem huge efforts to segregate by sex in our local group.

They have rung around to encourage extra girls to a camp so they can chaperone a girl who did want to attend an otherwise all boy camp.

Her last camp there was only one large room. The girls had tents erected within that room. Male leaders slept in tents outside, the female leader slept in a large cupboard...

Yes, the price of validation for a tiny minority is the destruction of the sense of safety, wellbeing and ability to participate in public life of girls (and women).

It's not great that the most common arguments are whether very serious risks such as rape or pregnancy could occur. What about just feeling safe? Feeling trust? Being able to believe what you're told? Feeling like you matter, your feelings matter?

Just incase people don’t know who the Challenors are. Charming trans gender Aimee and daddy dearest. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/aimee-challenor-father-rape-election-agent-green-party-investigation-a8725701.html

IlloveJKR
When people make such comments, I feel physically sick. It’s all a huge, huge breach of trust. The whole thing. I was so lucky not to have been raped myself. Been in some very sticky situations including a pensioner peodophile. Many children just don’t say anything. I didn’t even as an exchanges student at 17 and being pinned against walls by a boy.

GG believes that putting a teenage transgirl in a tent with a female teenager and not telling parents is fine and nothing could possibly happen. Two opposite sex teens alone all night is perfectly safe.

Is it also the case that the girls themselves are not informed and thus might not know? If true, for some girls this could be awfully traumatic regardless of whether anything happens and a huge, huge breach of trust and destruction of sense of security and belief in adults in charge.

I understand that it might not be very likely this would occur in reality but could this be the case in theory?

I believe the Challenors were raised as potential advisors but it was never confirmed. Certainly Amy tweeted at one point bragging that they were involved in the policy. I can’t remember details though.

Who advised GG on this disastrous policy? Was it David Challenor, currently in prison for raping a child.

How can they not see how bad this makes them look?

I haven’t been in scouting for a few years but if we were taking girls to camp, we needed a female leader and separate accommodations. I believe this may have changed and mixed sex sleeping arrangements are allowed as long as this is clear to parents in the planning phase. The expectation in girl guides is that it is ya mixed sex organization and GG leaders are explicitly not allowed to let parents know that a male youth member is present. So mixed sex accommodation is essentially a secret.
Stephen Whittle says this is fine because Stephen lost Stephen’s virginity as a Queen’s Guide at a camp with a lovely sensitive Scout.
When I take my guides to a mixed camp I give the girls AND their parents a no sex no drugs no booze and I will be returning you home at your parents expense from wherever in the world in you are if you decide to break the rules.
GG believes that putting a teenage transgirl in a tent with a female teenager and not telling parents is fine and nothing could possibly happen. Two opposite sex teens alone all night is perfectly safe.

Dp just asked a really good question. I went through and loved guiding and totally agree single sex spaces valid and useful.

Scouting (dp did) obviously went mixed.

What are their rules on mixed sex accommodation. Do Beavers packs have to have a female leader if there are girls? Do they let boys and girls share tents? I’m assuming not?

Plus, it's now absolutely guaranteed to hit the newspapers. Win or lose the whole country will know the girl guides are allowing boys to sleep in
the same tents as girls, and deliberately withholding that info from parents

This is true, well I certainly hope the papers make it front page news. I've said the same about other places/institutions going the same woke way. It's fine, you do whatever you think is right, but advertise the fact your going woke. Make big news of your changing rooms being mixed sex, dont hide it in measly words like gender, say it loud so people have a choice before they enter your premises. Sadly these places dont listen to me.

Who covered Helen’s stuff initially? Was it Janice Turner? I wonder if there would be any interest in a follow-up.