"Survivors Must Fight For Trans Women Too" thoughts?

I'm reminded of the second rule of misogyny:

1. Women saying no to men is a hate crime

16% of the 750 trans participants reported domestic abuse, of which 51% said that "Their partner ridiculed their gender identity" and 14% said "Their partner stopped them from being able to express their gender identity".

I wonder what constitutes "ridicule", and in any event, since when was it domestic abuse to tell your husband and the father of your children that he isn't a woman?

For male victims only the figures also include violence from ex partners of current partners, or from current partners of ex partners which, when I looked at the figures 3 years ago, added another third on to the stats for male victims. Furthermore, the stats showed that familial violence (from children) was a much larger proportion of dv for adult male victims, whereas for adult female victims the majority was from current or ex partners.

For some reason I was subscribed to this shit rag. Not any more!

That's definitely inappropriate. Deeply retraumatising and unsafe.
So I think the need for safe self contained housing for survivors fleeing violence is extremely important.

An important part of recovery from male violence & abuse for many women has been in a supportive all female space.
Self contained housing may not be the best option for many women.

16% of the 750 trans participants reported domestic abuse, of which 51% said that "Their partner ridiculed their gender identity" and 14% said "Their partner stopped them from being able to express their gender identity".

I have long suspected (but haven't researched as it would be too depressing), that the surprisingly high figures for domestic abuse amongst trans people, must include trans widows refusing to accept their husband's gender identity in the definition of "abuse".

@Happy101
It sounds as though the #Be Nice scales are dropping from your eyes. Gender critical feminists are constantly being portrayed as the powerful nasty oppressors of these poor poor men, backed up by their dodgy statistics and warped analysis of the past.
Thanks for posting on here and keep dipping in to learn more and see the bigger picture.

@Michelleoftheresistance I haven't found them, the ONS are in the process of starting to, up until now it's been a fair bit of guesswork from press and courts and the reason given by ONS is pretty understandable

"The ONS doesn’t publish specific figures on trans and non-binary victims of violent hate crime because the Crime Survey “generates very few cases of hate crimes against transgender individuals due to a small sample size. Releasing this information could be equivalent to releasing individual personal details which we are legally obliged not to do.”

I wound up stuck on ONS and Crime Stats site for hours trying to make sense of it, after reading this
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

The police are recording Males as "Women" not "Trans women", so they clearly don't give two shits about crime and demographic statistics.

Have just checked their facebook page and it looks like some women have said the reporting just isn't factually correct.

And also they could very easily have reported that in fact some refuges do accept trans women - and some dont.

I couldn't help but laugh at their warning at the start of the article that there were harmful expressions of transphobia.

As far as I could see these seemed be women who dont accept the trans narrative.

If as they claim they are both workers in Refuges why haven't they taken the decision to work in a refuge that does offer services to other trans women who they are best place to support.

To insist on being in a refuge that doesn't accept trans women is just part of the power play of you must accept who I say I am even if it means you have to deny who you are.

Its just part of the emotional wind up of what seems to be an endless supply of sob stories being sold to the media.

The 7.5% figure in the article refers to women who've experienced domestic abuse in the last year, I believe. Whether it's still too low, I don't know.

Sorry haven't had time to read all of this thread. I read this article yesterday but couldn't get their comment section to work.

The main issue with this is the outright lies it is based on. ie they are trying to trans the past.

When refuges were set up there was never any intention that trans women would be included.

The whole basis of WOMEN's refuges were based on the analysis that it is the common oppression of women as a sex class by men as a sex class that means the service and support is informed by the common oppression - one of which is men's violence.

So the whole tone of trans women are being martyred is just part of the "we are the real victims".

But the article is another indication of just how far the trans narrative is now accepted as THE narrative across a range of publications including Refinery29 and high end glossies like Harpers Bazaar. So on all platforms the trans narrative of horrible "cis" women being nasty to poor trans women is endlessly seeping into it's primarily female readership.

And I very much doubt there is any right of reply.

And of course gender critical women are not given the same access to having their voices heard.

We currently have a situation where vulnerable victims of domestic violence, who've gone through violence and rape, sometimes get housed (after refuge) in mixed sex HMOs, hostels, and rented rooms sharing facilities with other (mixed sex) residents including potentially violent ex offenders (male, female, trans or not).
That's definitely inappropriate. Deeply retraumatising and unsafe.
So I think the need for safe self contained housing for survivors fleeing violence is extremely important.

I’m not sure I believe that only 7.5 % of women have experienced DV either.

2018 Mumsnet with Women's Aid video.

'Walking on eggshells'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC1pCi-GwGU

"A new Mumsnet survey to mark the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, run in partnership with Women’s Aid and Surrey Police, reveals that 38% of the survey respondents say they have been in a controlling or abusive relationship* with a partner – but almost a quarter (24%) of users who said they had been in a controlling or abusive relationship told no-one about any incidents of controlling or abusive behaviour"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

There are national stats regarding trans deaths in the past decade as with every other group: they've been referred to on other threads so someone brilliant will know the source.

As far as I remember, it was less than ten, several had been murdered by other TW, several died in the line of sex work, and I don't think any were DV or domestic murders.

And yy to the poster who pointed out: this has nothing to do with meeting anyone's needs. This has everything to do with removing provision from females and enforcing female subordination to males. With demands that females should be willingly embracing this.

Warped.

That doesn't mean I don't also want access to other safe single sex spaces (as well as specialist safe spaces for trans survivors), but having a safe secure home is the biggest priority and self contained refuges across-the-board would meet the needs of all survivors - including trans.

Has there been any incidences of transwomen being murdered by their partner or former partner
According to ONS deaths are recorded by sex, so unless being Trans is listed as the reason for the murder in crime stats it wouldn't be listed.

I knew one Gay kid at school who was killed by his boyfriend in his 30s, it wasn't even classed as Domestic Abuse despite witnesses hearing his boyfriend shouting "When did you fuck him? Bullshit you were in his flat all morning" and hearing him sobbing and screaming "Sorry" after he'd stabbed and beaten him to death. Pretty standard DV witness statements I thought.
Instead it was treated as a 'fight' between Two men that left One dead. Manslaughter.

I suspect shit like that happens a fair bit. Yet Gay men are not claiming they need refuge space from Women.

Awful article- they work with the abused?
Good grief it's all a bit "move over you (cis) women- Now!!"

Agree TW need services tailored to their own specific needs

If you want a mixed sex service then all you need to do is make one. No one is stopping you.
That article is one ling screed of victim blaming and could be used as a textbook example of DARVO. Anyone working in the women's sector needs to take the training they have received about abusive behaviour and apply it to themselves.
There is no place in trauma recovery for support workers who mimic the behaviours of abusers.

When I was in a refuge one woman had been preparing to move into a hostel OR give up her 14 year old son temporarily to social services as the refuge wasn't allowed to have him there at 14. They'd been in that refuge for 18 months, that kid was heartbroken, absolutely sobbing his heart out at leaving the first safe place he'd ever lived and the other families that he'd been living with, but even he understood why he had to.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

This is the issue that makes me see red mist like no other (so take great delight in Russell-Moyle's self-pitying flounce). I was a victim of DV and child abuse at the hands of my father. I was a rape victim. I've been stalked twice. I've experienced more lower-level unwanted contact, sexual assault or sexually inappropriate behaviour than I can count. It has all, all of it, been at the hands of men.

I personally don't find the term survivor helpful, although I appreciate others do and don't seek to denigrate that. I don't want these experiences to define my life from this point on. I didn't crawl out of some arbitrary train-wreck; I was specifically targeted. I could have done nothing against these assaults, therefore, at the time, I was a victim. It wasn't character-building: I achieved what I did despite these fuckers who tried to humiliate and destroy me, and I'm no longer a victim now. For me, that distinction is important.

I didn't ask to be raped, to be violently assaulted or abused. Men forced that upon me. It's taken me 25 years to be able to speak about it, thanks to #MeToo and therapy, so as to help others in the same position and NOT help our abusers by complying with their desire for our silence. Now, having done so, more men think they can come along and mansplain to me how I am allowed to identify, respond to, process, and articulate that trauma. It's the final fucking indignity. Fuck. Right. Off. with that noise.

As to the link, I only managed skim-reading beyond the disclaimer which incensed me like no other: Warning: This article contains descriptions of transphobia which some readers might find upsetting.

Nothing about the kind of offensive content which victims of rape might find upsetting. Right now I can't even put into words my inarticulate anger, dismay, helplessness and fury at such attitudes.

How fucking dare they!

There's no benefit to women survivors of including male survivors with a trans identity, and very clear harms. That should close it down right there - if anyone saw those women as fully equal human beings.

Women survivors have one job: to heal, and recover. Trying to saddle them with responsibility for anyone, other than any children they may have, is genuinely evil. Almost all trans women are identifiably male, because gender identity is invisible, and subjective and unprovable, whereas biological sex is obvious and has clear and huge implications. Women do better in single sex provision when they're survivors of male violence. To dismiss that fact is to demonstrate contempt for women.

I agree that there needs to be a shelter for trans women. Very few trans women are killed, but the majority in this country who have been were killed by a male partner. So why aren't the trans orgs opening one? Appeal for funding and it would very clearly cascade in, given how well funded the trans lobby groups are. This would increase overall provision in the sector, and also ensure dedicated, specialist, expert care for trans women survivors, with properly trauma informed understanding of the unique challenges and implications for them, specifically. But that's not the goal, because many campaigners care less about trans survivor welfare than they do trying to eliminate single-sex women's spaces.

I remember a senior Labour party figure writing a piece, in the last few months, on the absolute disinterest in a promised package of millions of pounds of healthcare funding. The only concern, he said, from transactivists - most of whom were not trans - was in eliminating women's right to single sex spaces. They were not interested at all in any other discussions, or funding promises, around the welfare of trans people.