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Original poster

Let's talk about sects baby! Psychotherapy, all the good things and the bad things that can be

104 replies

hoodathunkit · 22/07/2020 10:51

Let's talk about it!

Apologies for not posting yesterday.

I got so caught up in posting on Monday that it has left me very behind with a number of tasks and quite exhausted.

There is so much to be written about dodgy psychotherapy and its links to satanic panic hoaxes and also to real dangerous cults that it will take a very long time to sort it all out.

I am very busy today, but would like to start by providing evidence to support my claims about Bessel van der Kolk, claims that were disputed by various posters in the thread about Jacqui Dillon and MAPs.

It will take a while for me to post all the evidential links and screen shots, so please bear with me, this will take some time. I will not be able to finish this task today as there is just so much information.

I would like to initially explore Bessel van der Kolk’s many connections to neo-tantric sex cults, this will take a few posts and I am not sure whether I will have more time today so please bear with me.

Firstly let us examine the activities of Bessel's wife Betta van der Kolk aka Betta de Boer van der Kolk

here is a photo of Bessel and Betta together that I harvested from a facebook account (I think it was Bessel’s account to be honest I am not entirely sure, but the photo shows they are a couple and the text accompanying the photo on the fb page confirmed this.) The facebook account is no longer available to me, others may be able to see it? However readers will be able to see from the photo that Bessel and Betta are a couple and will also be able to identify the women in the photo, Betta, as the same woman in my links below

photo here

Now, let us examine Betta van der Kolk’s work as a “tantric” healer and educator

Here is a link to an internet radio show titled "Tantra and Sexual Healing with Bette de Boer van der Kolk “ in which the following text appears
"This interview features body psychotherapist Betta de Boer van der Kolk about Tantra as a way to heal from sexual abuse. Betta describes Tantra as an exchange of energy that brings presence, connection, safety and play into sexuality. She leads the listener in a technique for couples to harmonize their breathing in order to give to each other through their bodies. She also describes ways that a woman can receive sexual healing through Tantric massage, and men can learn to dissociate orgasm from ejaculation, in order to experience ejaculatory control.”

source:
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200722074139/safespaceradio.com/tantra/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200722074139/safespaceradio.com/tantra/

I have linked via the archive for safety and for archiving purposes. Readers interested listening to the audio can access it not using the archive using an internet cafe, library or some anonymous place if possible.

The below link is also informative and includes the following text:

"Betta de Boer-van der Kolk – a gifted expert on Tantra and Trauma who came all the way from Amsterdam to be with us. Betta and Dan demonstrated the ‘love dance’ (a completely clothed demonstration of positions for lovemaking), sharing the multitude of ways to share physical love, staying connected with body, energy and heart. It was one of the highlights of the weekend to experience!"

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200722080117/blog.sourcetantra.com/tantra-hawaii-judith-davis/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200722080117/blog.sourcetantra.com/tantra-hawaii-judith-davis/

Another link if significant interest

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150513033724/www.meetup.com/Source-School-of-Tantra-Yoga-Boston/members/34601892/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20150513033724/www.meetup.com/Source-School-of-Tantra-Yoga-Boston/members/34601892/

as is this link via the archive
archive.is/u4bGo

Readers interested to learn the kind of activities performed by Tantra Educators from the Source School of Tantra may wish to read the following 1st person account of a yoni massage performed on a vulnerable female by a man called Sturm, a Tantra Educator from the Source School of Tantra in Maui, Hawaii

"I Got a Yoni Massage For Journalism"
The tantric healing modality is supposed to release tension through your vagina. But it was more like getting finger-banged by a stranger.

BY JESSIE SCHIEWE
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200503204854/www.okwhatever.org/topics/naughty/i-got-a-yoni-massage-weird-news" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200503204854/www.okwhatever.org/topics/naughty/i-got-a-yoni-massage-weird-news

I will post again as soon as I can

Let's talk about sects baby! Psychotherapy, all the good things and the bad things that can be
OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 26/07/2020 10:27

I sure wonder why there is so much effort put into discrediting victims of csa.
And anyone supporting them. You've even thrown mud at Maggie Oliver but no interest in organised grooming gangs.

QuentinWinters · 26/07/2020 09:38

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951033/

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) therapy is an empirically validated treatment for trauma, including such negative life experiences as commonly present in medical practice. The positive therapeutic outcomes rapidly achieved without homework or detailed description of the disturbing event offer the medical community an efficient treatment approach with a wide range of applications.

This is not quackery.

deepwatersolo · 26/07/2020 08:57

Oh no, not that one, again, the ,satanic panic‘ fallacy. Where some paedosadist just need to don some silly masks and light some candles to get away with their sh*t, because, clearly, this kid can‘t tell the truth, satanic panic, false memory syndrome and all...
Has anyone read the blog of Anneke Lucas? Her memories resurfaced when she was 20 or so - no therapy involved. Of gatherings of powerful men abusing her and other children (no mention of satanic costumes, though.) Repeatedly, frequently, for many years. Sounds very credible and ties into similar accounts by Regine Louf - who gave testimony to police in the Dutroux affair. (Even though they do not describe the exact same circles of people. It just looks like the Netherlands had something analogous to the ,Belgian system‘.)
I sure wonder why there is so much effort put into discrediting victims of csa.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 22:07

Stripesgalore

I am genuinely very sorry to hear about your situation Flowers

One of the reasons I have delayed posting about my concern here is that my policy in most things is to "not poke holes in someone tent unless you have a new tent to give them".

I am very seriously distressed by the appalling state of therapies available for many issues, but I have a special interest in sexual trauma as I am a survior of trafficking and torture, although many years ago.

One of the reasons I am so angry and concenred about these issues is because I have attempted to seek therapy myself and have received invitations to believe that I was abused by a satanic cult.

I genuinely want to protect vulnerable women from abuse.

You are correct that not all EMDR therapists are evil or in cults, I have met some lovely, well meaning EMDR therapists, however the evidence base is lacking and there are some therapists who are not at all kind.

As for IFS please, please don't go there. IFS and other "parts" therapies are extremely dangerous IMO / IME.

I have done a lot of research about this.

I am utterly exhausted right now but would be very happy to share with you what has helped me over the years, of course I cannot guarantee that what has helped me will help you.

I hate the idea of survivors not having access to therapy, but I hate every more the idea of survivors going through the hell I have been through.

I am so sorry to upset you and I am really exhausted.

All I can offer you right now is to tell you that I care, that some things do work and that I will post more tomorrow. I am so sorry to hear what has happened to you and it is to protect women like you that I have spent countless hours researching this stuff so as to try to prevent further abuses.

Not much help right now I know. Will post more tomorrow

OP posts:
Fffffs · 25/07/2020 22:07

I don’t need to respond to anything. Your trying to persuade people you have a valid arguement and failing miserably.

No one has commented on specific cases, no one has said bvdk is a hero, no one has said it isn’t possible some therapists are abusive.

You are trotting out a claim that false memory syndrome comes from therapists when it comes from the false memory syndrome foundation, founded by pedophiles silencing their victims, with no science backing it. It’s used to silence women- not one woman, but millions world wide having been silenced by the fake claims of false memory syndrome. You clearly haven’t read any of the history of the false memory syndrome foundation or Jennifer Freyds research on betrayal trauma theory. You are handing abusers the tools to silence their victims without even having read the science. Not you tube links that anyone can make up, but evidence based, peer reviewed, published research that’s been read by millions and comes from a leading expert in the field whose credentials are public for anyone to see, whose well known for her work for women’s rights, for survivors and responsible for DARVO, that you’re demonstrating in classic narcissist fashion right here. The feminism board is not a place for anyone to promote the mechanism (fms) men use to silence women.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 21:55

You haven’t demonstrated any clear links, nothing you say here holds up at all. You are clearly cherry picking what to respond to, and avoiding all of the points you can’t squirm out of. It’s very disengenous to talk at odds like that, it’s a form of gas lighting. Maybe you’re just here to intentionally gas light women, but you seemed unintentionally misguided and I’ll informed initially hence - read the science- but you continue to be deliberately obtuse at best, which doesn’t negate the harm you do to women survivors by ignoring the history behind fmsf and the science behind betrayal trauma theory.

You need to respond to my questions about the terrible abuses inflicted upon Carol Felstead and her completely innocent family before I even think about respondng to you

here - read this and tell me whether Carol had false memories or not

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200629113309/www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/11/carole-myers-satanic-child-abuse" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200629113309/www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/11/carole-myers-satanic-child-abuse

while you are here have a listen to this

justiceforcarol.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/phonerecording.mp3

It is a recording of one of Carol's "therapists" Dr Linda Fleur Fisher, former Head of Ethics of the British medical Association, fraudulently claiming to be Carol's next of kin and attempting to get the excess from Carol's car insurance policy deposited in her bank account following Carol's mysterious death in unexplained circumstances.

I would like to ask you whether you believe that this is a proper way for anyone to behave, let alone a consultant in medical ethics?

Carols other "therapists" were associated with the ISSTD, an organisation that I will post more about tomorrow.

I look forward to reading your reply

OP posts:
Stripesgalore · 25/07/2020 21:52

OP, do you really expect anyone to keep up with this array of random links to a whole load of people nobody has ever heard of?

I have PTSD. I am waiting for EMDR but it has been delayed due to the pandemic. EMDR is what the NHS is offering me. In the meantime I am doing IFS on myself as it is the only thing I have found that is helping my mental health.

I have years of mostly missing memories, good and bad (fortunately not from childhood). I am trying to recover them through scrapbooking and IFS. It is amazing to get memories back because those are years with my own kids. I also struggle to make new memories or future plans. So no past, present or future.

You are basically trashing every well known form of trauma therapy by tying it to some random supposedly dodgy people who nobody has heard it.

How is this helping anybody? You are not actually explaining what is wrong with the content of these theories or therapies.

I don’t want to deal in stereotypes, but my EMDR therapist, who I only met once before the pandemic is a highly educated, articulate and insightful young Muslim woman with a specialism in DV. I doubt she is brainwashed or part of a sex cult. I was recommended EMDR by my worker from the local women’s aid.

Your posts just seem like an avalanche of nefarious connections but with no actual point. How is that useful or comprehensible?

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 21:45

sorry, very sore eyes

just wanted to share this video by Kamala Devi promoting an erotic book she wrote

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=xIxZo5APoyQ

I am including it as it depicts a fictional account about a curious yoga teacher who dates her ex-boyfriend's lover and gets drawn into a world of kink, fetish, polyamory and tantra.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=xIxZo5APoyQ

Although the video is about a fictional character the trajectory that the promotional video describes is accurate in terms of how people can get caught up in abusive sex cults.

Someone may start off with an interest in yoga and be curious about learning about lovemaking techniques and end up involved in things that they had not bargained for.

I will post about the ISSTD tomorrow or on Monday

OP posts:
Fffffs · 25/07/2020 21:36

You haven’t demonstrated any clear links, nothing you say here holds up at all. You are clearly cherry picking what to respond to, and avoiding all of the points you can’t squirm out of. It’s very disengenous to talk at odds like that, it’s a form of gas lighting. Maybe you’re just here to intentionally gas light women, but you seemed unintentionally misguided and I’ll informed initially hence - read the science- but you continue to be deliberately obtuse at best, which doesn’t negate the harm you do to women survivors by ignoring the history behind fmsf and the science behind betrayal trauma theory.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 21:35

My next evidential link is to the website of a tantric educator who works at a senior level with the Source School of Tantra, and has done for many years, and who was also deeply involved with the Phoenix Goddess Temple and ISTA (International school of Temple Arts) based at the Phoenix Goddess Temple's "sister temple" the Sedona Temple (both were the subject of police raids), Kamala Devi.

The linked page is to an extremely helpful list of "her Top 40 Awesome Experiences", they include: (emphasis mine)

  1. My one-woman-show: The Sacred Slut series

  1. Starting the Bisexual, Lesbian group at my University

  2. Directing the LGTB Pride Festival in Honolulu in ’97

  3. Trying my hand as a professional Submissive

  4. Founding, Directing and performing in 5 years of Tantra Theater (www.TantraTheater.TV)

  5. Sex Magic: The movie with Baba Dez

  6. My ongoing alliance with both Source Tantra and ISTA (International school of Temple Arts)

  7. Fundraising for Goddess Temple

  8. Playing with Tantra Theater’s Improv Comedy Troupe

  9. Learning Forum Facilitation at ZEGG in Germany

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150521044307/www.kamaladevi.com/5156/kamala-devi-40th-birthday-life-review#.VV1iai-cYWo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20150521044307/www.kamaladevi.com/5156/kamala-devi-40th-birthday-life-review#.VV1iai-cYWo

There a a few rabbit holes to explore here but the evidential stuff relevant to the Source School of Tantra's links to the Phoenix Goddess Temple I have highlighted.

This video is also of interest

OP posts:
Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 21:22

curious readers may wish to check out this archived link to the website of the Phoenix Goddess Temple before it was raided by the police and closed down

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20110210010015/www.phoenixgoddesstemple.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20110210010015/www.phoenixgoddesstemple.org/

pay attention to the links to:

Mare Simone (Betta van der Kolk's co-presenter in the screening of The Sessions and colleague at the Source School of Tantra)

Annie Sprinkle - Deer Tribe member, recruiter and advocate, porn star, "eco-sexual" and sex positive activist.

Another of the websites of the Phoenix Goddess Temple aka the "School of 1" is below,

the page I selected shows the page of a member of the "school faculty" - Kenneth Ray Stubbs, a co-author of the Deer Tribe Manual, a disgusting tome that advocates the sexual initiation of minors at publerty by older adults.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20110910164741/www.schoolof1.org/faculty/kenneth-ray-stubbs-phd-visiting-faculty/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20110910164741/www.schoolof1.org/faculty/kenneth-ray-stubbs-phd-visiting-faculty/

please also see the following videos

In my next post I will demonstrate further clear network connections between the Source School of Tantra and the Phoenix Goddess Temple

OP posts:
Fffffs · 25/07/2020 20:59

False memory syndrome foundation not society- just to correct my terminology. So false memory syndrome didn’t come from therapists, it came from Paedophiles silencing their victims who grouped together and cherry picked nonsense from research studies that didn’t back up false memory syndrome, who used their money and power to push their rhetoric and to silence women who spoke up about their own experience of csa and repressed memories. So the fmsf works a lot like the trans ideology. It’s also based on no actual science and threatens women who dare to speak the truth. It’s disembanded finally but feeding into it is hugely harmful.

Science is real. Women experiencing abuse and being silenced by their abusers is real. Why in 2020 on a feminism board is this even necessary to state. It is not ok for anyone to throw about terms like false memories without knowing the facts about the false memory syndrome foundation and about Jennifer Freyd and her experience of csa and her huge body of work on the science of recovered memories. Doing so is violating victims again by discrediting us and taking our voices and handing men the means by which to continue to shut us down.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 20:45

back to Betta de Boer van der Kolk's sex surrogate colleague at the Source School of Tantra Mare Simone

a video if interest

OP posts:
Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 20:35

What is ISSTD?

a fair question

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_the_Study_of_Trauma_and_Dissociation#Controversies

If you would like to see some archival documentaries about some of the quacks central to the ISSTD history I can post them here, in fact I will do that in a moment so that you can educate yourself about the issue.

Over the time I have been at work a variety of my colleagues have turned out to be sex offenders, one a terrorist and one a serial killer. It doesn’t mean I am in a cult. It’s just that bad people exist and have jobs.

I may be able to compete with you in this respect.

The issue is not so much that Bessel van der Kolk has some dodgy associates. This can happen to anyone.

The issue with Bessel van der Kolk is that

  1. Issues relating to his wife Betta.

He is actually married to a woman who works for a "school of tantra" that a) teaches vaginal massage as a therapy for sexual trauma b) promotes sexual surrogacy, c) is at the centre of multiple allegations of rape, sexual abuse and the coverups of such abuse, d) is demonstrably connected to a "tantric temple", The Phoenix Goddess Temple, via the Source founder Charles Muir and other Source people (e.g. Kamala Devi), that was at the centre of police raids and multiple criminal convictions for prostitution, pandering and other serious criminal charges. There are other issues that I will report soon.

also

In 2013 the National Association of Social Workers, Massachusetts Chapter, held a screening of the controversial film The Sessions.

The film depicts a scenario, based on actual events, in which a profoundly disabled man who has never had a sexual experience with another human being, hires a sexual surrogate for a series of sessions. The real life sexual surrogate was a neo-tantra practitioner.

The presenters of the screening were and are both senior practitioners at the Source School of Tantra (now the Source School of Tantra Yoga), Betta de Boer Van der Kolk and Mare Simone

The details as follows:

2013 NASW Fall Film Festival: The Sessions Sunday, December 8, 2013 2:00 PM -5:30 PM The Studio Cinema, 376 Trapelo Road, Belmont With Discussant Betta de Boer Van der Kolk, LICSW
12/8/2013
When: Sunday, December 8, 2013
2:00 PM - 5:30 PM
Where: The Studio Cinema
376 Trapelo Road
Belmont, MA 02478 ‎
Presenter: Betta de Boer Van der Kolk, LICSW and Mare Simone, Certified Sex Educator

source:

archive.is/LmZmg

Curious readers who wish to read more about Betta's co-presenter Mare Simone can check out her website, via the archive, below

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170915070311/www.maresimone.com/meet-your-guide" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170915070311/www.maresimone.com/meet-your-guide

Mare is a qualified sexual surrogate, an unspurprising fact given that the school of tantra where she works advocates sexual surrogacy.

Readers may find the following video of Charles Muir discussing demonstrating “tantric massage” on his colleague Mare Simone for a “private men’s group” audience in the following video

  1. Bessel van der Kolk has a working relationship with Mark Schwartz, an extremely controversial expert in "sexual issues" and trauma who, alongside his wife Lori Galperin, left the Castlewood Treatment Center following a number of lawsuits alleging abusive practices that resulted in vulnerable patients experiencing false memories of incest and satanic ritual abuse, ruining the lives of vulnerable patients and tearing families apart.

Curious readers may be interested to know that Mark Schwartz and Lori Galperin both worked for some years with the Masters and Johnson institute, a controversial sexology organisation that pioneered the use of sexual surrogates as a form of therapy.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190228020842/marriagetherapyinstitute.com/the-real-masters-of-sex-masters-and-johnson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190228020842/marriagetherapyinstitute.com/the-real-masters-of-sex-masters-and-johnson/

  1. Bessel van der Kolk has (had?) a working relationship with the disgraced paedophile former Rabbi and current "thought leader" Marc Gafni, who is currently in a lover relationship with Lori Galperin, Mark Schwartz's wife (it is all so complicated). This working relationship between van der Kolk and Gafni was active approximately 10 years after allegations of Gafni's sexual abuses were first made public. By the time Van der Kolk worked with Gafni the genie was out of the bottle and Gafni had an appalling reputation.

Given that Van der Kolk's "brand" is of a kindly authority on trauma it generally and sexual trauma specifically, do you not think it is at all strange that so many of his associates are accused of appalling
abuses against vulnerable people?

  1. Then there are Bessel van der Kolk's multiple associations with the ISSTD, which I will post more about soon. You really should be curious about this.

I will next post some links to some documentaries exposing the abuses of various actors who are highly active within the ISSTD and its various prior incarnations.

After that I will need a rest for a while as my eys are sore.

OP posts:
Fffffs · 25/07/2020 20:29

DID is not ‘associated nonsense’, what a disgustingly dismissive and abusive thing to say. It’s been in the dsm for ages. False memory syndrome was literally created to silence women. It’s deeply disturbing that on a feminism board where many of us have been victims of abuse anyone would continue such harmful nonsense. False memory syndrome wasn’t created by therapist putting fake memories with into their patients heads, it was created by Jennifer’s Freyds parents and associates as a way to silence their own victims of sexual abuse, their own children. Again read the actual research on the subject- Jennifer Freyds book betrayal trauma theory, that clearly explains the many mechanisms of how our brains repress traumatic memories and later recall them once we are adults who are safe and in therapy. Some of the ways are as simple as they didn’t know that what their father was doing was abuse or that they didn’t have the words for it until a supportive therapist helped them understand that. Plenty of people who ‘recovered’ memories of abuse in therapy are as simple as this- shutting them down by banging them over the head with false memory syndrome is a horrid way to replicate how they had their voices shut down by nonsense like false memory syndrome. In addition there’s tones of research in the book that shows how our brains have the neural pathways to forget trauma, especially if it’s our primary care givers, because to survive we must always prioritise our attachment to whoever we are dependent on. As adults in safety finally having a therapist who isn’t invested in invalidating our experience isn’t normal to then be able to recall things that we couldn’t face prior. You really are very cruel and insensitive to post on a feminism board claiming false memory syndrome is from therapists without ever having read the expert on how memories are recalled. Jennifer Freyd is an incredible woman, very much an open book whose education, research and teaching credentials are there for anyone to check, who was fighting for women to get equal pay long before most even acknowledged it, who was responsible for creating DARVO long before me too was a thing.

No ones claimed bvdk is a hero at all, but you are feeding into a hugely harmful myth that’s used to silence women by not having the knowledge of where false memory syndrome came from, how it has zero research to back it up, and all of the research that does back up the processes by which we are wired up to forget csa, yet can recall it later. Shouting false memory syndrome is no different to shouting terf or saying women were crying rape. That would be bad enough on its own, because men turning up here to shout burn witch burn isn’t uncommon, but a woman who hasn’t even read the scientific literature on the subject shouting false memory syndrome is frightening. It’s hand maiden level shit and not ok on a board that should be a safe place for women.

Please please read Betrayal Trauma Theory. Talking about false memory syndrome as anything other than what it is- a term from peadophiles to discredit their victims, who were mostly their own daughters- is no different that spouting trans ideology as if it’s credible fact. Words have meaning and you can’t rewrite Jennifer Freyds entire life experience (& that of the other victims of the predators who were involved in the false memory syndrome society) just because it suits your pov to claim it’s made up by therapists. It wasn’t- it was a group who repeatedly pushed false memory syndrome, who put it forward to the dsm repeatedly where it was always refused, who had their membership to psychological associations stripped from them all because fms was their fabrication to silence their own children from speaking out about the csa they experienced at the hands of their parents. And sorry to disappoint but it was mostly just standard old child sex abuse from their fathers, not anything you could twist into your satanic panic rhetoric. Read Jennifer Freyds work before dismissing her life and her work so flippantly and so callously. Please at least be informed of the science before handing men more fuel to the myth of fms that gets used to silence women and girls.

Stripesgalore · 25/07/2020 19:01

I don’t see any posters here seeing these people as heroes, never mind beloved heroes.

What is ISSTD?

Over the time I have been at work a variety of my colleagues have turned out to be sex offenders, one a terrorist and one a serial killer. It doesn’t mean I am in a cult. It’s just that bad people exist and have jobs.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 18:49

Posted a video twice in error

This is the Richard Ofshe kenote address relating to his brilliant book Making Monsters

OP posts:
Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 18:46

False memories are widely recognised. The reason "false memory syndrome" is not in the DSM is because it is not a mental illness, is is a sequeale of bad therapy - an iatrogenic condition. It typically goes away the moment a patient enters therapy with a therapist who is skeptical about SRA, MPD, DID and associated nonsense.

In the late 80s and early 90s I knew a number of women who seemed to have normal relationships with their parents until they entered into therapy of a dubious kind, and subsequently "recovered" memories of incest and / or satanic ritual abuse that they did not have prior to therapy. I saw some of these women interact with their parents over years. I witnessed the familial alienation and utter devastation that false memories wreaked on innocent families.

I can understand that people often push memories of sexual abuses to the back of their minds and can manage to forget about them until they, for example, bump into their abuser years later and it jogs their memory.

The problem that I have is with the pheomena of people who enter therapy and who recover extensive memories, going back many years, of being abused daily by someone (often a beloved family member) and then falsely accuse their family of incest and / or SRA.

This is exactly what happend to Carol Felstead. It has been proven by a police investigation that the allegations made by Carol against her family are impossible and cannot have happened. Carol was a victim of false memory therapy - this has been proven.

Would you care to dispute this?
I was told by various ISSTD associated therapist that the fact I have no memories of being abused in a satanic cult is proof that I was involved in a cult and have repressed the memories. This is so ridiculous that I have no words to describe it.

I am also appalled but unsurprised by how posters here are attempting to draw attention away from the fact that their beloved heroes have some extremely disturbing personal and professional connections by making ridiculous claims that false memories do not exist.

Proof that memories are very easy to create can be found via this documentary

There is a brilliant keynote address by Richard Ofshe here

Howeve, as many sensible people have pointed out, "true believers" have a fixed and unshakable belief in their theories and no amount of research or reason will change their minds

This video illustrates that sad fact perfectly

OP posts:
QuentinWinters · 25/07/2020 17:27

Yes. Memories aren't fixed, "true" or "false" things. They are perspectives and the point of a lot of therapy is to examine alternative perspectives, and revisit childhood memories with an adult experience to make sense of them.

Also, everyone knows the experience of "having your memory jogged" and suddenly recalling something in response to being reminded. If you can accept that could happen when talking about the favourite dress you wore to aunt millicent 80th birthday when you were three (as a completely innocuous example), why label the fact someone might suddenly recall being abused in response to therapy as "false memory syndrome"?

Fffffs · 25/07/2020 17:00

EMDR is evidence based and peer reviewed and recommended by WHO iirc.

You don’t appear to have addressed my reply on the other thread, that I referenced here. So I’ll say again that you appear to be be representing the idea that false memory syndrome is credible- it isn’t, it’s been refused entry to the dsm and icd repeatedly, is based on 0 credible research studies and the people responsible for it have been thrown out of every psychological association world wide. They were peadophiles who abused their daughter and used fms as the excuse to cover up their abuse. Their accusations that her therapist implanted fake memories has been disproven and instead their daughter, Jennifer Freyd, well known for DAVRO - which you will have seen here plenty- who is highly educated and respected in her field, has built on numerous research studies that shown the neural pathways for repressed memories of abuse and later remembering are not only possible but actually a common mechanism for any child experiencing csa at the hands of their primary attachment figures. Her book betrayal trauma theory is easy to read and explains all the many ways in which this can happen. You should really understand the science behind this before shouting false memories in discussions about women’s abuse, because false memory syndrome was created to silence women brave enough to speak out about their abuse. By perpetuating that myth you enable abusers to continue to use this fake syndrome to shut down women’s voices.

Craftycorvid · 25/07/2020 16:45

OP, you must very stuck for something to do to post all of this; you have wilfully misunderstood Bessel’s writing for one thing; and trauma-focussed therapy is in no way a cult practice.

Stripesgalore · 25/07/2020 16:40

I don’t know who any of those people are, other than Richard Schwartz. You can see all the academic papers for IFS and/or Richard Schwartz by using google scholar.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 16:22

IFS is peer reviewed and evidence based

Grin mwha mwhaahaha you bastard, I just spat coffee all over my monitor!

I have so much to share about IFS, this is going to be a rewarding experience for me.

Out of interest I'd be grateful if you could share some of the literature supporting IFS. thanks in advance

I would also be intersted in your opinion on the many people who claim to have been harmed by IFS, including families destroyed by Mark Schwartz and his wife Lori Galperin's disgusting abuse of patients using IFS (and other methods) at Castlewood?

Did you know that Lori Galperin is sexual predator Marc Gafni's lover and on the board of trustees of Gafni's Center for Integral Wisdom?

" Lori Galperin, my partner, stunning, gorgeous human being who is one of the five or six leading trauma therapists. She is a deep soul who feels the pain of the world and spends her life as a healer. Her formal structure is with her colleague Mark Schwartz : they started in the field of sex therapy, and they discovered there were deep traumas. They have also gone into eating disorders and other areas. They have taught 75,000 therapists and started a trauma clinic. They are deeply wise healers, and Mark and Lori are masters of several interdisciplinary areas that they have integrated. She has been the Co-Chair of the Board of Trustees . She is also joining with me and others in writing a new manual on intimate relationships as well as developing and writing about the new field of Unique Self Recovery."

source:
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170405174437/centerforintegralwisdom.org/ciw-founders/founders/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170405174437/centerforintegralwisdom.org/ciw-founders/founders/

Did you know that the creator of IFS Richard (aka Dick) Schwartz is a collaborator with the sexual predator Marc Gafni?

evidenced here:

"IFS, Integral and Unique Self

Ken Wilber, Richard Schwartz & Marc Gafni

In this dialogue, Professor Richard Schwartz (Internal Family Systems), Ken Wilber and Marc Gafni discuss a specific therapeutic case originally described by Prof. Schwartz from his therapeutic practice.

Richard Schwartz is a leading expert in the field of psychotherapy and recognized as the founding developer of Internal Family Systems Theory, an influential therapeutical model which combines systems thinking with an integrative view of the mind and its discrete qualities."

source

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170415123135/centerforintegralwisdom.org/unique-self-recovery/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170415123135/centerforintegralwisdom.org/unique-self-recovery/

I am properly tired now and need to get some exercise but it will be my pleasure to post more soon :)

OP posts:
Stripesgalore · 25/07/2020 15:55

IFS is peer reviewed and evidence based. The major study was of rheumatoid arthritis.

The part about memory in the other therapy - it isn’t a false memory. It is a memory of something he is fully aware that he chose to explore in his imagination. Many people use their imaginations to make up stories and day dreams and are have memories of what they imagined. That is having a rich inner world and awareness of your own mind. It isn’t a false memory.

Original poster
hoodathunkit · 25/07/2020 15:39

Bessel van der Kolk presented a lecture alongside the paedophile and sexual predator Marc Gafni at Gafni’s highly dubious organisation the Center for Integral Wisdom in 2014. At this point Gafni had been widely exposed as a paedophile and sexual predator. It is hard to imagine what excuse Bessel van der Kolk could come up with for his professional association with Gafni. Maybe he could try the “Prince Andrew” defence that he only agreed to work together to provide him with a chance to tall Gafni that they must not be in contact again, but it ended to be done in person because he is “honourable”? Or something.

Complex Trauma and Treatment of Addictive Behavior with Marc Gafni and Bessel Van Derk Kolk

Posted December 26, 2014

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20191116113821/centerforintegralwisdom.org/programs-and-events/event/complex-trauma-treatment-addictive-behavior-marc-gafni-bessel-van-derk-kolk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20191116113821/centerforintegralwisdom.org/programs-and-events/event/complex-trauma-treatment-addictive-behavior-marc-gafni-bessel-van-derk-kolk/

readers are advised to check out the following videos

also this piece (there are many online - I have chosen a Jewish owned website as some of the online accusations agaist Gafni are from antisemetic sources)

<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160726144250/failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2015/12/rabbi-marc-gafni-exposé-678.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20160726144250/failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2015/12/rabbi-marc-gafni-exposé-678.html

Gafni's sexual abuse of women started to surface in 2004. He was considered a notorious sexual predator for many years before Bessel van der Kolk co presented a lecture with Gafni at Gafni's organisation in Monterey.

I would be interested in the opinions of readers as to
a) whether Marc Gafni’s defence against the many allegations of sexual abuse as detailed in the videos I have linked to is remotely credible
b) whether Bessel van der Kolk’s working relationship with Gafni is in any way acceptable or excusable

OP posts:
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