Has Liz Truss said she won't make an announcement on GRA until September?

Puzzled why my message was deleted, except that it was a generalisation: it's a fine line to tread, and has left me a little wobbly but this whole situation has, crikey it's a tough time (for all)

Baroness - you are under estimating the power of male networks. The ones that get set up at school and university and so on.

It is these private networks that control a lot of what happens. How do you think the outliers on the very fringe of queer politics ever got their foot in the door of being able to get the GRA in 2004.

Add into that the network in gay clubs etc..

You dont honestly think that decisions taken are all above board and through democratic motions.

Even women in workplaces know that one of the reasons they dont have power in the work place is that they dont have time to go to the pub / club after work.

Of course they know more.

Women are always on the fringes.

It is private networks and "trusted" side kicks, think Cummings, who decide what will or wont happen.

Why do you think Pink News and Stonewall have been as influential as they are? Not because of competence but whose back they can scratch.

Surely you aren't that niave as to not be aware of this.

The comments section below the article has the full range from "couldn't care less" to "most oppressed ever" to "why are we dismantling protections for women and girls and medicalising children". The ratio seems to be on the side of biology realists and, interestingly, that three-letter abbreviation so heavily monitored on here has passed by without a murmur.

What would be interesting would be the results of one of ConHome's snap surveys if it cared to do one: this is limited to a nationwide panel of verified Conservative politicians, activists and party members.

That Blunt/Pascoe article is very odd.

Quite a lot of 'don't worry dear' the numbers are small. (And a real wtf about only a small number of children aged under 16 likely to need medical treatment.)

I wonder if people like Pascoe are starting to realise that trans lobby groups are doing them no favours. Yet are not brave enough to set out a distinct position of their own.

By Radical

At the end of the article linked by Imnobody4 is a link to an article to Lynn Truss which shows the pressure is still being kept up re safe spaces etc

This is Sue Pascoe in case anyone isn't familiar
www.advocate.com/world/2019/5/09/conservative-uk-trans-candidate-running-seat-eu-parliament

One of the reasons I'm panicking a bit.
Sue Pascoe is Acting Area Chairman of the Conservative Women’s Organisation in North and East Yorkshire.
www.conservativehome.com/platform/2020/07/crispin-blunt-and-sue-pascoe-its-time-to-correct-the-stoking-of-alarm-and-spreading-of-misinformation-about-trans-people.html
We really need to keep up the pressure.

're The memorandum of understanding Keira Bell has a crowdfunder to challenge in the courts.

@rusty100

don't forget about the silent majority - lots of women in that group and those who forget it exists are usually dumbfounded when it speaks (usually by votes). Noise and numbers aren't the only thing that counts.

Numbers are quite depressing though

I am concerned that we don't make enough noise to be counted though. I signed the Baronesses petition and shared it on Facebook, but it still has less than 7,000 signatures. Am I missing something?

I think Boris will move when it is clear that such a move will have popular support. And this happens by women, and others, speaking out.

Agreed, I think getting the message out is helping JKR did a great job. Cummings knows many red wall voters do not support the kingdom of woke

stumbledin why do you think Penis News are more in touch with the Govt than any of us? My gay friends think they're a bunch of
Clowns and are embarrassed by them. If they're in touch with Truss et al I'm fairly sure it's a one way diatribe

I think the issue is still in the long grass and will remain there until it cools down a little.

I would not be surprised if Carrie were GC. She was brave throughout the Stephen Warboys affair, she is close to Nimco Ali, and generally seems to know her own mind, whilst keeping her head below the parapet. Dominic Cummings is married to Mary Wakefield who is commissioning editor for the Spectator, known refuge for GC journalists, whilst Andrew Gilligan who wrote some very good GC articles whilst at the Sunday Times, is now a No 10 adviser.

Other than Penny Mordaunt, it is hard to think of a member of the front bench who is obviously GC, and many of the Tory rank and file are clearly not.

Boris just needs to pick the right time. He is dealing with coronavirus, which few Governments have handled well, and with the economic/employment fallout still to come. Brexit is looming on the horizon, and Cummings seems determined to "sort out" the Civil Service. Now is not the time to have a war on woke.

The time may come. There will be court cases, Stonewall continues to overplay their hand and people (including those who traditionally fell under the Stonewall umbrella) are getting tired of the gender bollocks.

(Wfh DH, unusually, left his speaker on, but his microphone off, during an organisation wide "discussion" for international non-binary day. I moved out of earshot but only after the woke vocabulary bingo card was full. As far as I could see, he was not alone in using the time to continue with emails and the occasional phone call. He tells me that research suggests that "diversity training" has very little impact on an individuals views, and indeed may cement resentment. Views are mainly formed from personal experience so capable colleagues who are gay/black/disabled/Muslim are far more influential. Focus really should be on enabling and supporting talent from non-traditional backgrounds.)

I think Boris will move when it is clear that such a move will have popular support. And this happens by women, and others, speaking out.

I had a very positive chat with my tory MP on Friday. They really knew what they were talking about - they knew who yaniv was and Karen White, and they said they had grave concerns about mermaids and gender self id. Sounds as though this is more than just a fringe political movement now, and there is a lot of awareness in the right places ....

My MP said they were meeting about it today at another MP's office and said they strongly suspected the government were not going ahead with the reforms....

I would be quite happy to say that there should be no attempt made to convert someone's gendr identity provided it was also illegal to attempt to convert someone's physical body

To allow physical body conversion to affirm gender identity is wrong

Various groups are lobbying hard that the ban on conversion therapy must also include a ban on gender identity conversion. So many more children who pitch up in a doctor's or therapist's office claiming to be trans after being coached by some YouTuber will end up making irreversible changes to their bodies If this happens it will be a disaster.

But is the choice was between feminists and queer male activists the Tories will go with the latter.

I'm not convinced of that. I raised the matter with the Conservative canvasser on the doorstep in the run-up to the GE in December. He was a Tory councillor and knew straight away what my concerns were - he was openly GC. He said even then that the Conservatives knew Self ID was a mess and wanted to kick it into the long grass.

Bear in mind that at that stage, a hung parliament was thought to be the most likely outcome - Corbyn was still a contender then - and Boris was essentially fighting on a Brexit ticket. Also bear in mind that Dominic Cummings once said he has "no time for all this gender identity crap". And finally, bear in mind that the average Conservative voter is older than the average Labour voter and polls consistently show older people are more openly GC. The Tories know their natural voters.

I must say I find the idea that Prick News are more likely to be in touch with the government hilarious!

There are loads of women, on and off Mumsnet, who have been talking to peers, MPs and the GEO frequently, particularly in the last few months. I would pay more attention to them than Prick News.

Liz Truss gets it.

re comment about Pink News - as they are more likely to be in touch with Government than any of us, its an indication that the story is true about a further delay.

Which is what I thought this thread was about!

I suspect Cummings has set up some algorithm and based on shed loads of emails both from trans activists and gender critical feminists it is seesawing backward and forwards as to which way to go.

I dont think they care either way. They just want the votes and for Boris to come out as somehow both friendly and welcoming to younger people but sufficient hard line for the ERG and followers.

But is the choice was between feminists and queer male activists the Tories will go with the latter.

www.psychotherapy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/UKCP-Memorandum-of-Understanding-on-Conversion-Therapy-in-the-UK.pdf

For the purposes of this document ’conversion therapy’ is an umbrella term for a therapeutic approach, or any model or individual viewpoint that demonstrates an assumption that any sexual orientation or gender identity is inherently preferable to any other, and which attempts to bring about a change of sexual orientation or gender identity, or seeks to supress an individual’s expression of sexual orientation or gender identity on that basis.

This makes it difficult already for a psychotherapist to take a watch and wait approach.

They should probably stick to just banning gay conversion therapy. If they extend the ban (as in Canada) to sexual-identity conversion therapy, it could make it difficult (as it did there) for therapists to take a sensible watch-and-wait approach to trans kids, and force them to just offer positive affirmation of whatever the child believes, without questioning too much where it comes from.
Also, since trans identity affirmation can be used as a de facto form of gay conversion therapy, you risk all kinds of contradictions.

Oh Pink News can bugger right off.

If it's not tomorrow then it might not be too after the summer. I'm desperate to know too but it's no good speculating. We're just going to have to hold tight.

I'm holding onto the single sex spaces protections and the fact that the Times wouldn't report on something that is so far off-base we end up with a 180 on reform.

I have hope. Liz Truss has daughters. Boris' fiancée and mother of his latest child had a narrow escape from John Worboys. It can't go back to Self ID territory. I was proved wrong on Trump and Brexit though but I don't think this will go the way of the handcart.

Pink News is reporting that the interview that Boris Johnson gave earlier today means it will be delayed - or maybe just slipped out during summer recess?

... in an interview with ITV on July 20, Johnson appeared to confirm growing speculation that the GRA results would not be published before Wednesday, saying that the Tories response will be published “over the summer”.

“On the general issue of our response to the Gender Recognition Act, we’ve said that we’ll be responding over the summer and that’s what we’re gonna do,” Johnson said. ...

I think the UK could repeal the GRA. Give trans women legal recognition as trans women, and trans men legal recognition as trans men. They will both be protected by the PC of gender reassignment. Any existing GRCs can be grandfathered. Third spaces can be provided alongside women only. This is not impossible.

If TM and TW are already covered by ‘gender reassignment‘ in the Equality Act 2010, what would be the advantages of legal recognition as TW and TM (and would need to do same for NB people?)
How would it be certified? What would be different to GRC?
Could there not just be a legal definition of TM and TW? So that people will know when the EQA protections around reassignment become engaged?

The GRA is out of date and superfluous now. It is no longer fit for purpose. We have same sex marriage now, we have equal pension age. It is ridiculous that we still have an irrevocable state-issued certificate lasting until death, based on people’s subjective personal identity. The detransitioned women speaking up recently show this. There is no revocation mechanism available to rid them of their GRC once they have been given it, having applied in good faith but then changed their mind.

This just shows how poorly thought through and naively drafted the GRC was. The Tories usually want to get rid of outdated unnecessary bureaucracy and red tape. The GRA cert is objectively an irrelevant, unnecessary process now. The GRA should be repealed because it was made to deal with a genuine unfairness about same sex marriage not being available at the time. That has been rightly sorted out years ago.