Teenage boys being forced to take estrogen and seemingly being experimented on in LA

I thought there was some evidence oestrogen has a calming effect
news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/08/estrogen-and-female-anxiety/

I think this story could be linked to the trans issue in that there is a precedent for prescribing oestrogen to Male bodied people. It seems bonkers but maybe the doctor thought it might help. Poor boy though.

We used to have lots of posts not trans related. Then MNHQ started moving trans threads to FWR and we got a reputation for being one if the few places it can be discussed so the board got overwhelmed. It's a shame in lots of ways.

However we've always had loads of trolling and I've noticed that still happens on non-trabs threads. I think its divide and conquer. While we discuss trans issues we aren't threatening. As soon as we start a thread about porn, rough sex, domestic violence etc it's too challenging and must be jumped on.

99.9% of feminism is NOT about trans

I know, right!

Wouldn't it be nice if we could stop having to fight for the right to define ourselves and get back to it?

Also, as FWR is a board on a parenting forum, it doesn't seem that surprising to me that it is perhaps more parenting focused than other feminist spaces might be. There's bound to be a degree of overlap.

There have been 2 court victories this week which will have a positive impact for single mothers. Where were the threads on that?
@stumbledin why don’t you start one/some, I’d be interested to hear more?

I do totally disagree with self ID however, but honestly I'd be more worried about the threat of sharia law than trans people in the long run, and I'm not overly concerned about that.

It is very clear from threads that if anyone tries to start a thread that isn't trans related it very rarely gets comments.

Given the totallity of issues that directly impact negatively on women they just dont feature on mumsnet FWR.

There have been 2 court victories this week which will have a positive impact for single mothers. Where were the threads on that?

I actually agree with this and often wonder if the trans debate is so appealing because it offers the justification for having a great big battle with 'the baddies', accompanied by loads of drama and backslapping.

I often think it should have a separate sub section.

This is not a feminist or a trans issue. A young man has been badly let down by the medical profession. Shoe horning trans in to it ignores his plight.

Not bullshit.

It is very clear from threads that if anyone tries to start a thread that isn't trans related it very rarely gets comments.

Given the totallity of issues that directly impact negatively on women they just dont feature on mumsnet FWR.

There have been 2 court victories this week which will have a positive impact for single mothers. Where were the threads on that?

99.9% of feminism is NOT about trans. Its only on mumsnet that feminism is seen as a single issue camaign about trans!

Oh bullshit.

Later in the article the point is made that oestrogen tx could actually make behaviour worse.

My take home from this is how frighteningly easy it is to make a permanent physical change to a young body - from this article it seems less than 2 weeks of medication has lead to breast development that will require surgery to correct.

Does oestrogen actually even make men more docile? When men are on TRT it has to be carefully controlled as aromatisation can create high e2 levels which leads to increased emotional instability.

Sorry - of course its a feminist issue. Women are mothers. Who wouldn't be concerned about this happening to their son.

99.9% of feminism is NOT about trans. Its only on mumsnet that feminism is seen as a single issue camaign about trans!

I think it is related. One of the things trans activists are doing is effectively saying gender stereotypes are real. Some doctors now seem to be thinking this and are resorting to these sort "cures".

Its going back to the dark ages ie when male doctors could get women incarcerated in asylums because they decided that a woman being sexually active was not "natural". In those days you would end up having a lobotomy.

And then there was this story only a few days ago - www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/20/i-forgot-how-to-cry-as-a-man-hrt-gave-me-a-range-of-emotions-i-never-thought-possible ie instead of looking at how male stereotypes might have been the reason he felt unable to cry he assumes its hormonal.

Its like what a lot of people who knew a bit more than I do(!) pointed out that Freud was a really good observer. The problem was he was so stuck in the insular world of male superiority he was only able to interrupt events to fit his pre-existing reality. So more often than not prepetuated the problem by re-inforcing the false notion of male superiority.

Of course it has to do with the trans debate, since it is similar to what is on offer to other children for non-medical reasons. There is no way that estrogen could be a valid treatment for ADHD, as girls get ADHD, too.

It's a very bizarre thing, and disturbing. As far as I understand it you have every right to post things here which you think the other mumsnetters who use the board might be interested in.

I'll second that WrongPlanet.

Don't worry WrongPlanet. It made complete sense. Thanks for sharing the information. I agree, it's very concerning.

Tim Pool the YouTuber did 2 videos about this. Tim talks about how the Trans debate confuses this, was a female who transitioned to a Trans Man etc.

• Boy was threatened with a long sentence if he refused.
• Parents not informed
• Grew breasts and will need long term medical help. m.youtube.com/watch?v=tej-HxU_OM4# m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVWm4OBU5m0

I'm just so confused why anyone thinks that giving cross-sex hormones to children is not related to giving cross-sex hormones to children or why doing unsupported medical experiments on children is not connected to doing unsupported medical experiments on children. Or why an 'abusive medic acting criminally' has no connection to abusive medics acting criminally. It's possible to see this story as part of a bigger picture. That doesn't make me 'monomaniacal' or even wrong, though I agree that there are other angles to look at this from.

It is an absolute travesty what has happened to this boy and I do see it as part of a larger landscape where children are being routinely medically mistreated, which includes trans issues - but also a lot more besides.

Is there a list of what is and isn't a feminist issue? I'll need to get hold of that. There was me going around thinking that people have a right to raise discussion about whatever issues they like.

This has nothing to do with trans issues. Chemical castration exists and is very dubious. Diethylstilbestrolal fir example is anonsteroidal estrogenmedication, which is very occasionally used. Some rogue medic has gone way off- piste here but tying this to trans issues makes you look monomanical. It isn't even a feminist issue.

Isn't the administration of oestrogen as a "chemical castration" som which has long been considered.

@EricLove123 Oh god, what are you going on about? I'm not hypothesizing or making assumptions, I was asking a question. And I wasn't asking YOU the question. So why don't you just leave me and OP alone. Clearly OP is concerned, clearly it does look similar to other situations that we are aware of, clearly she has a right to raise any concerns she wants to raise. If you don't want to talk about it, then... don't? Go away? I don't know what else to tell you.

@queenofknives It's got nothing to do with the trans debate or feminism.

There's zero evidence anywhere that ADHD or ODD could be treated hormonally. You can hypothesise why the medic prescribed it but we don't know and there is no evidence whatsoever that oestrogen may make someone 'passive' even if that's your assumption to try and make it relevant to the 'trans debate'.

It's why all the Drs asked to opine on this case are basically saying 'fuck knows why, it's bollocks' so the fact some deranged medic illegally prescribed medication is absolutely meaningless in that regard.

Any medic will tell you it's incomprehensible that it would be suggested as a treatment and detracting from the real issue - an abusive medic acting criminally- to make some kind of GC point is distasteful.

Because what's happened here is a young man has been abused and assaulted in a government institution by a representative of a medical profession who was actually breaking the law.

It will be interesting to see if that was why the medication was given.