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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Changing chromosomes is possible

60 replies

SepticTankYank · 17/07/2020 23:11

I rarely post on Facebook. I can never be bothered. Someone keeps posting anti JK Rowling posts. I commented on one and it got deleted. I commented on another and I wish it was deleted. I got a barrage of bullshit on there. Myself and two other girls agreed and discussed. The author stated he would delete anything that was transphobic (so anything that didn't agree with his views) one stated you can't change chromosomes. I asked if he was going to delete that or if science was still a thing? Obviously it was deleted but he then posted

"Please look up information/testimonies or - from a position of genuine interest, empathy, and respect - ask people for more information themselves. Don't just declare identities wrong, say it's scientific fact when it is provably wrong by anyone with literacy on this subject, and melt like a snowflake when someone explains that hate speech isn't free speech and they're not taking your transphobia."

I have asked but no response. What on earth does he mean that it's provably wrong that we are born a sex and it can't be changed??? This doesn't make sense to me and google doesn't bring anything that I see as relevant or likely to explain.

I'm doing a lot of reading on this at the minute, most of it guided by mumsnet and am learning so much. I'd like to thank you all for that.

OP posts:
Dhalandchips · 17/07/2020 23:36

Could you ask him how I can change my daughter's messed up chromosome 15 please?

holidayplanningnewbie · 17/07/2020 23:34

This article's great:

An Open Letter to the Guy on Twitter Who Wonders if Biological Sex is Real

Sex is such a mystery to you when women want shelters for themselves, meetings for themselves, words for themselves. Pardon me for asking, but is it equally mysterious when you log off Twitter and move over to Pornhub? The true nature of a female body is so complex when you lecture. Does it become simple again when you masturbate? Who does the laundry in your house? Were you somehow able to navigate an inchoate soup of X’s and Y’s to saddle your girlfriend with the dishes? Give yourself some credit — I think you know perfectly well what a female body is. But in case you don’t, here’s a hint:

It’s the only type of body that gets you thrown on the funeral pyre when the husband dies. It’s the only type of body that gets your feet bound and your breasts ironed. It’s the only type made pregnant through rape and burned with acid, the only type expected to sit quietly and listen while we redefine it away, the only type men have spent millennia criticizing and critiquing and buying and selling until we suddenly decided we don’t even know what the fuck we meant this whole time.

You know what a female body is, dude? It’s the only type of body that makes men like you ask such stupid questions. So please, stop. This is an emergency. This is three and a half billion human beings tied to the tracks, and you’re riding on the train. Your insistence on nuance, your fetish for accuracy, your smug deconstruction of common sense — it doesn’t make you thoughtful. It doesn’t make you wise. It doesn’t make you progressive. It makes you an asshole.

SepticTankYank · 17/07/2020 23:33

Thank you @holidayplanningnewbie that's really interesting.

@DianasLasso it's someone who I went to school with (long ago. Longer than I care to admit) but they were always so intelligent and open to debate.

He and his friends shot down everything in the most militant way. I was shocked that everything was deleted and at how rational statements were twisted and according to them, obviously meant something completely different.

How are we meant to learn or discuss anything if it's removed?

OP posts:
holidayplanningnewbie · 17/07/2020 23:24

You'll find that people will tell you that sex is more complicated than XX and XY. Which is true, it is more complicated than XX or XY. A very small number of people have DSDs (Disorders/differences of sex development) so they may have something like XXY or just X.

HOWEVER - this doesn't mean they're a different sex. Everyone is either female or male, even people with DSDs. Humans are a species with two sexes, no matter how hard some people try to pretend we're not.

The logic in the articles trying to use DSDs to prove gender identity goes something like this:

  • Sex is more complicated than you think.
  • Here's a load of complicated-sounding stuff about genes, chromosomes, hormones, secondary sex characteristics etc that does not prove there's more than two sexes but I'm going to pretend it just did
  • 2% of people are intersex (this is not true, it's more like 0.018%
  • Therefore, trans people are real and valid
  • And - uless you've checked your own chromosomes and hormones you can't possibly know if you're actually female or male

If you point out this isn't a logical, coherent argument - or ask what the third sex is, they tend to call you transphobic and shut the conversation down rather than look critically at what they just said.

It's bullshit of the highest order.

But, loads of people believe it. I had an actual medical doctor try to tell me this the other day - yet when I presented them with evidence that what they were saying was wrong, they ended the conversation rather than engage with me. Scary stuff!

nauticant · 17/07/2020 23:23

He means for you to suck up a load of mumbo-jumbo and in trying to figure it out (no point, it's meaningless pseudo-science) you tire yourself out and give up presenting a sensible contrary view.

It's gaslighting.

TorkTorkBam · 17/07/2020 23:21

I would assume he has no bloody idea what he is saying. I would assume he has decided you are a transphobe and he is a woke and so he must negate everything you say, even if that means saying stupid shit wrapped up in emotive language.

Thateverlastingyes77 · 17/07/2020 23:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DianasLasso · 17/07/2020 23:20

Is this a RL friend, or someone in a position of influence that you feel obliged to challenge? Or just a random contact on facebook? It's always worth asking yourself "why am I fighting this particular battle?"

If he's just a random on facebook, it's probably like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks all the pieces over, then shits all over the board, then struts across it puffing its chest feathers up and acting like it's won.

No point engaging. As the old adage has it, "you can't argue with stupid."

And no, of course you can't change your chromosomes.

SepticTankYank · 17/07/2020 23:17

Well yes! I agree. GrinGrinGrin

But what does he think he means?

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 17/07/2020 23:16

What on earth does he mean that it's provably wrong that we are born a sex and it can't be changed???

He means he's a pompous but scientifically illiterate idiot, I think. Unless he's a clownfish with exceptional typing skills.

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