Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

I appreciate that you believe that GC is an acceptable position to hold, but on that we will have to disagree.

So this poster thinks imposing gender stereotypes is a good idea?

Many of us would prefer not to work with misogynists, but that's just tough, isn't it?

I got called a cunt once by one of my mates but that was for singing a One Direction song at Twickenham

Now you’ve crossed a line

OP I’m surprised, but now you’ve “fully outed yourself as GC at ‘woke’ workplace” you’ll probably get called it quite a lot.

Dianaslasso, I very much care about employment law and we comply with it. This is not contradictory to anything I’ve said.

I've had to complete some NHS surveys for research recently.

They specifically ask what sex you were at birth.

It's a useful way of being able to get some actual data, rather than garbage in relation to medical matters. Perhaps firms could stay accurate and accommodate the feelings of people who transition by asking that and a second question of how they identify?

It's a bit like those threads we get sometimes where someone happily admits that at interview they drop all the women of childbearing age.

Amazing that employers don't just view women with such utter contempt, but actually feel supremely comfortable airing their utter contempt on a public forum largely run by and for women.

In the meantime I'd really like to thank the member here who recommended The Durrels a few weeks ago.

We enjoyed that very much, cheers!

Oh my, that's too many questions!

His little head will explode!

(And he won't answer any of them.)

Probably not, Baroness. They seem quite coy in revealing what they personally believe.

So:

I am a woman because I am female, my female body is the reason why I am a woman

As opposed to:

I am a woman because I feel like I am one, it doesn't matter what biological sex I am, I define my gender

How would it not be? Any one idea that you are particularly offended by? That women have rights to organise politically as an oppressed sex class, maybe? Or that female health issues are important? Or is it just that forcing people to mouth sexist words that they don't believe to pretend that they think men are women is totes inclusive and you don't see why anyone wouldn't?

Great questions eresh but as redtears won't answer the simplest question (what is a woman) I think you have no chance with these.

I might assume GC is Gender Conscious?

Gender critical ie someone who thinks gender is imposed by society as sex based stereotypes rather than innate feelings.

Well I'm probably fully asleep rather than even slightly woke. I have no idea what the OP is really on about. I might assume GC is Gender Conscious? but how does someone use pronouns about themselves in any communication unless they are referring to themselves in third person?

“ If they tried to sack a female employee for raising issues about shared changing rooms, or about collecting stats properly, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on and would lose the resulting employment tribunal.”

I’ve acknowledged that up thread

What is the point? What do you think is bigoted about not believing in gender identity ideology?

“Good leaders want mixed teams, not clones who are afraid to voice their opinions.”

I heartily agree, but if you think it’s relevant to GC then you’ve missed the point.

redtrees what is it about women wanting sex-based protections that you disagree with?
You don't think women are discriminated against because of their sex?
You don't think women are vulnerable because of their sex, or need protection and support?
You don't think that gender stereotyping is harmful to women in the workplace and in their careers in general?
I think that kinda sums up I we need to keep on fighting, as people like you are undermining my rights and safety and making me feel unsafe and concerned for future prospects of myself and other women.

Concrete examples of why distinguishing sex and gender in my workplace would matter.

1. STEM employer. Women are under-represented. This is probably due largely to the "leaky pipeline" (women are less likely to do A level sciences, less likely still to do undergrad work, drop off again at PhD level - mostly due to society's expectations). We monitor this. Your typical MTF transgender person transitions after they have gone through school, undergrad, PhD, postdoc. They have gone through all these career defining stages with male privilege as a following wind. If we include them in the stats, we distort the stats. Because the barriers to women's inclusion in STEM typically occur early career when the MTF person was still presenting as a man. I don't doubt going through school as transgender is horrendous, but one thing such a person doesn't get is the constant barrage of "wouldn't you be better off doing (caring profession/arts subject/social sciences/communication rather than research/teaching/accountancy)?"

2. We have (or had prior to covid) a workplace gym, with open plan changing rooms and curtained shower cubicles. We also have a number of Muslim women employees (incidentally the "leaky pipeline" phenomenon is an order of magnitude worse for ethnic minorities than it is for women, so you certainly don't want to hit, say, Muslim women with a double whammy of discrimination). Are they suppose to stop cycling to work, or using the gym facilities, because someone with a penis decides they identify as a woman and can thus enter single sex accommodation? Am I, as a woman who uses such facilities, legitimately allowed to point out that current UK legislation (The Equalities Act) specifically allows changing rooms to be single sex rather than single gender?

I think Redtree's position is a pile of virtue signalling nonsense: they haven't thought at all about real-world consequences, nor do they have any understanding of actual UK law. If they tried to sack a female employee for raising issues about shared changing rooms, or about collecting stats properly, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on and would lose the resulting employment tribunal.

Ah yes, The Guardian: the perfect solution to the toilet roll crisis at the start of lockdown!

Why is recognising that sex is a real thing that exists, that women are oppressed on the basis of it, and that women accordingly need some provision based on their sex, an unacceptable opinion? You do realise that sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, yes?

I think gender expression should be up to the individual. I absolutely support laws that prevent harm or abuse or discrimination based on gender expression. It's just another form of misogyny and/or homophobia. That doesn't mean you have to believe that humans can literally change sex - that their gender expression is their sex. That is, bluntly, bonkers. Sex is a biological fact with real-life implications. Declaration alone can't change a person's sex. And gender is a social construct, largely used through history as a tool to keep women in their place. You can encourage freedom in gender expression, while also recognising that sex remains a key fact, especially for women.

Wonderfully put. Co-signed.

As a BAME woman I'd find it really fucken offensive if my employer thought GC views were comparable to racism. I can't identify out of my oppression.

It’s unacceptable to believe that women = adult human female & that gender is a social construct that has always had a damaging effect on women as a class?

Right....

Too scared to. Embarrassed at my cowardice.