Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

Congratulations on your business success. The country needs more entrepreneurs like you. What do you lose by answering questions though? Surely we all need to understand why people hold their views in order to be able to challenge our own?

Good on you, McDuffy.

There are a group at my workplace who are pushing for pronoun use, led by a non-binary staff member. I privately call them the Wokerati. Fortunately it hasn’t yet gone beyond HR saying they can include pronouns if they want, and the takeup has been minimal.

I won’t be taking lectures from people who are determined to stoke division and cause conflict where none need exist.

..or answer any questions.

If anyone should ask me anything else, they'll hear from my solicitors Mee, Mee &Mee

You uphold and promote an ideology that advantages members of the sex class that already has power and privilege (biologically male people) at the expense of members of the sex class that has always been disadvantaged and has considerably less power and privilege (biologically female people).

The equivalent would be to uphold and promote an ideology that advantages white people at the expense of BAME people. White supremacism.

So it’s fair to say you’re propagating male supremacist ideology, in a world already based on male supremacist principles. That doesn’t makes you a good person. It makes you a misogynist bigot, on a par with white supremacist bigots.
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Yours are in fact the “values” that are contemptible and at odds with decent people’s values. You could really do with educating yourself out of this bigoted, regressive, repugnant mindset. More and more people who care about social justice and equality are coming to see your bigotry for what it is, and find it absolutely repellent.

Stick around. You may learn something.

It was to do with a trans activist with a record of domestic violence being invited to speak at our workplace.

That sounds like exactly the right approach @MoltenLasagne. Concentrate on things a person has said and done, not what they "are".

Generally I think we need to get much smarter about how we tackle this. Much as it might be nice to see an army of women rising up to tackle the extremes not everyone is in a position to do this and they shouldn't be made to feel that they therefore can't do "anything". We need to look at ways people can oppose, the language they can use, that makes a point but doesn't give anyone the excuse to claim any phobias.

Justhadathought, I built my business over many years in a very male dominated sector. I am proud of the company and the employees and we have much to be proud of. We are generally a happy and productive place and no one is experiencing the kind of repression and subjugation described by PPs. I won’t be taking lectures from people who are determined to stoke division and cause conflict where none need exist.

@MummytoCSJH especially important for me as I'm completing my STEM degree and hope to progress further in research, and I have found even doing my Bsc that me being a woman has had an effect on what is expected from me

So sorry to hear this! It's over 3 decades since I did my BSc, and it's really shit to hear that attitudes like that still linger. I'd hoped we were moving in the right direction.

And I completely agree - wanting single sex space when you are vulnerable (gym changing rooms, shared overnight accommodation) isn't hateful, it's understandable given the level of male on female violence in the world.

No answers to any of the questions yet?

Just here to scold the women for their wrongthink then.

Well on the whole we’re a very happy bunch given how apparently repressed and subjugated we are. The work environment seems to suit our needs just fine. But keep up the GC threads and I’m sure you can stoke some division. Honestly you lot grin

As long as you try to enforce and impose upon people, something they feel to be repressive of their rights and dignity, you will always encounter resistance and opposition. It is you who is nurturing this division through your rigid adherence to an ideology which diminishes women and girls, and the female sex.

If only you spent as much time arguing in favour of respect for all, which could be achieved, most obviously, through third spaces.

Ok Floral, but I’ve not threatened the OP. Veiled or otherwise. Even if I wanted to (which I obviously don’t!) I have nothing to threaten her with. Baffling

People will usually treat people with respect if those people behave and deal with others in respectful ways. That is just general good manners. It does not need to be enforced.

This company of redtrees is not very respectful, as a matter of policy, to some members of staff, because they refuse to be subjugated by an offensive and repressive ideology, and because they will not be coerced into 'correct speech', not because they are bigoted or disrespectful.

I imagine redtree will never permit themselves to acknowledge this because what has come to be know as 'wokeism' is defined by a feeling of absolute moral certainty and righteousness- which is utterly intolerant of disagreement, and which in the case of TRA ideology is utterly negligent towards the rights and dignity of women and girls.

Some call that misogyny, although I suspect that redtrees is unable to see themselves or their attitude clearly....they feel that because they have lots of females in senior roles that is all that is necessary to show respect and 'right on' credentials.

I said veiled threats, redtrees. As in the phrase mentioned upthread, 'Nice job you have there, shame if you lost it...'

You can play coy as you wish, but everyone else can read the thread and understand what veiled threat is (and also plenty of personal attacks, imo, with your liberal use of bigot and comparison of feminist women to racists. But I'm content my meaning is as clear as yours and have no intent on a back and forth with you. Have a better day.

I've been reading these threads for a while now as they've popped up on active and rarely (if ever?) replied. Followed the JKR 'drama' as I love HP and don't really understand the outrage. I have seen blatant hatred of trans/gay/black people and this is not it. However, I've never really known enough to decide what I believe - I have trans friends and would never want to make them feel like they are not accepted in any way, as they are and I love them for whatever they choose to be, but @wellbehavedwomen what you wrote earlier really clarified things for me in regards to gender vs sex and what that means. What @DianasLasso said also stuck out as especially important for me as I'm completing my STEM degree and hope to progress further in research, and I have found even doing my Bsc that me being a woman has had an effect on what is expected from me. I've also been raped before and much prefer women-only (sorry if that's the wrong language, but biologically I mean!) spaces for that reason. Older teenage/adult men I do not know make me nervous in every day life, never mind when I am in a private or vulnerable position such as changing/toilet. I hope I've worded this the right way. I don't want to offend anyone I just want to feel comfortable in my own life. I don't understand why this is so controversial. I am not saying that people can't choose to act/look however they want I just feel safer knowing I am protected as a woman. Thanks for the info everyone, sorry if I got some things wrong, still learning.

Ignoring the merailing and getting back to the OP - I spoke out about a women's rights issue at work which conflicted with the current TRA agenda (with help from FWR). It was to do with a trans activist with a record of domestic violence being invited to speak at our workplace.

I was really worried about the consequences because my company is very woke and pride themselves on being a top Stonewall employee and I worried people would reason I was anti-trans rather than anti-DV and pro-women. The company almost instantly recinded the invite to the speaker and apologised to me. They've since changed their vetting policy for invited speakers.

My point is, it was very scary speaking out and I think if I hadn't no one would have, but actually the backlash I was worried about never materialised. I hope it's the same for you.

Well on the whole we’re a very happy bunch given how apparently repressed and subjugated we are. The work environment seems to suit our needs just fine. But keep up the GC threads and I’m sure you can stoke some division. Honestly you lot

I’m still a bit lost... refer to people the way they want .... what’s so difficult about that? I’m female. I’m a lady. I can have babies. I have boobs. I am miss/mrs/she/her..... if you want me to refer to you as entity that’s your prerogative I guess am I still missing something? Is someone refusing to refer to a woman as a woman cos they don’t believe women exist?

There’s always the same argument that we should tolerate all viewpoints. But I doubt you’d want to work with, for example, a racist. Even if their actions were not sufficient to legally dismiss them you’d still expect your employer to try to do something. There are some viewpoints which are at odds with my company’s values (which are clearly set out and in the public domain)

The point is, and one that you seem unable to acknowledge, is that you are being dismissive of women's needs and integrity - in forcing upon them a situation, and environment, which does not respect or acknowledge their specific needs. You are happy to subjugate the needs and comforts of your female staff, in favour of enforcing an ideology which you believe to be progressive, but which is actually repressive in the most awful way.

You believe in uniformity, not in equality or respect.

If someone wants to resist the trend but isn't in a position to make waves perhaps the following formulation.

"I will respect the pronouns of anyone who chooses to specify them but for myself I am happy for people to use whichever ones they prefer when referring to me. I will not therefore be specifying a preference in my E-Mail signature"

Nothing that anyone could possibly object to but makes the point.

I don’t think it’s difficult to grasp that a person with views at odds with those of the company and who airs them at work is not going to fit in. You cannot be so naive as to think that it would enhance your career prospects at that organisation

So your company is one which, on one hand, likes to appear 'progressive', and take plaudits for employing so many 'females' in senior roles, because you know that women have traditionally been under-represented in such positions, on account of their sex.......

And yet, simultaneously, you do not acknowledge that women exist as a distinct category, nor that they have the right to feel a sense of integrity, dignity or privacy in their sex. you do know equality does not mean similarity or sameness, it simply means equality of opportunity.

There is nothing wrong with 'different but equal'. This recognises the distinct differences of need and provision that relate to different groups or categories of person.

Equality does not mean riding roughshod over people in their own protected categories and spaces. Transwomen are not women/ are not female. They are transwomen. They are different. Make a space for them in your company, but that should not necessitate colonising the spaces and categories of others. Nor does it mean enforcing compliance with anything other with a spirit of general good team work and respect for others. Including your female staff.

This is entirely possible and reasonable.

People at some workplaces are being "encouraged" to display the pronouns they expect other people to refer to them by to show which gender identity they have. The OP has gently challenged this.

Am I the only one who didn’t really understand the original post? I get this is something to do with ‘identifying’ but tbh I’m a bit lost

I very much care about employment law and we comply with it. This is not contradictory to anything I’ve said.

Yes it is. You would discriminate against women who want to keep their sex based rights. You admitted that. So you don't care about employment law.

No problem, gardenbird, I'd still like to hear redtrees' answer, so it saved me repeating myself.