Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

@McDuffy

Thanks for that. I thought the thread was being completely hi-jacked when it had started being so affirmative and looking to support women who where GC and needed someone in a position of strength to stand up and be counted. Loads of people doing it💖

Even redtrees knows the difference between males and females, which is why they made a point about how many females were employed in senior roles in their company. We all know that differences exist . Redtrees calls this being "divisive".

The enforced pronoun business is based upon the perpetuation of a lie; an untruth....the supposed purpose : 'inclusion'.

My feeling is that trans people have to be honest with themselves. They are different; they are other...Just get on with it, and don't try to force the world to comply or change/deny the basics of biological reality in order to support your 'identity'.

'Generally I think we need to get much smarter about how we tackle this. Much as it might be nice to see an army of women rising up to tackle the extremes not everyone is in a position to do this and they shouldn't be made to feel that they therefore can't do "anything". We need to look at ways people can oppose, the language they can use, that makes a point but doesn't give anyone the excuse to claim any phobias'

Completely agree @HPFA - this has been a really useful thread to read and reflect on. HT to @wellbehavedwomen and @DianasLasso for their very clear and cogent summaries of why sex based rights and policies really matter. I'll be bookmarking this thread.

Redtrees

Please quote people properly. Either use the quote function, or bold or italics for the poster you are quoting. If you're not good with technical stuff then at least write quote marks around other people's words.

Certain people took advantage of many others good nature and before we knew it, the inch became a mile.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/

This just appeared on another thread. Very relevant to this discussion.

Me too, DialSquare. I just keep (with mouth open) wondering how on earth did all this happen so quickly.

Agreed highame

The whole time I've been lurking I've been trying to bring attention to this with friends and have yet to come across someone who disagrees

I am agape at reading @RedtreesRedtrees' posts: s/he is actively advocating breaking the law in developing policies in his/her company. The 2010 Equalities Act protects sex. "Gender cRitical" views are not bullshit: they are basic feminism: that sex and gender are different things.

Sex is the biological reality of every human (indeed mammalian) body.

Gender is a cultural & social construction, historically & culturally specific, which tries to condition or socialise sexed bodies into certain behaviours.

Feminist analysis argues that gender is the ideological structure which maintains male supremacy & patriarchy.

So to use the phrase "GC bullshit" is to announce to your employees that you don't countenance equal pay, rights to maternity leave, and other rights concerned with an employee's sex.

'@DialSquare'

We're all getting wise now, I wish I'd realised earlier, but I hope we'll make a massive difference and give these gals a bit of a boost

07:34ScrimpshawTheSecond

But you've still not answered my question, Redtrees. What views do you consider unacceptable in your staff, and how do you screen for them?

08:32RedtreesRedtrees

@scrimpshawthesecondWe use a range of interrogation techniques

You use a "range of interrogation techniques"?

You and your company sound absolutely foul.

Are these "interrogation techniques" used to elicit information on what an employee thinks - even if it is unrelated in any way to their job?

For example would you "interrogate" me about why I will not post on social media that I support Black Lives Matter not because I don't think black lives matter but the BLM has an extreme , Marxist agenda.

Or do you adhere to "silence is violence"?

I don't personally support my company's official charity- it is a huge, well- funded medical charity and I prefer to donate to animal charities. Would you "interrogate" me on that?

I don't take any active part in Pride - which seems to occupy a huge part of the calendar now.

Peter Tatchell by the way opposed same sex marriage- would you "interrogate" him ?

As a lurker in these boards for a number of years, today is the day that I feel I needed to sign up and comment. I will never understand how someone could read the points being made by the brilliant and articulate women here and not see that being fully inclusive in every way of one group of people will actually exclude many many more of another group of people and for a variety of different reasons. It’s clear as day to me what that will create and how awful it will be for so many but some people just do not seem to care about women and children. They are collateral damage. And I genuinely believe that I speak for many of the lurkers on here who are going away like me and doing what they can to try and protect the rights we have. Slowly but surely the world is waking up to this and most people agree with the GC viewpoint. Which isn’t transphobic or bigoted. It’s all about keeping hard fought rights.

Does anybody know a heterosexual male that would seriously see no difference between dating a woman and a transwoman?

No doubt somebody will be along to say 'but why should men be the judge of what a woman is' but the hypocrisy of that would make me laugh out loud...

Julie Bindel just tweeted this quote from Andrea Dworkin which feels oddly pertinent here:

'The public censure of women as if we are rabid because we speak without apology about the world in which we live is a strategy of threat that usually works. Men often react to women's words - speaking and writing - as if they were acts of violence.'
^^

Justhadathought, I agree that women do that..female socialisation is a bugger. And I feel enraged at people using this socialisation against women and girls - using their kindness and fear of male violence if they say No to men, against them to get their own way and hurt women even further. It is a really shitty, nasty thing to do.

As Redtrees has instilled a company culture that explicitly involves dismissal for anyone for thinking differently to Redtrees, Redtrees has no idea what anyone thinks as Redtrees will only get Redtrees own opinions reflected back to them

Shiny, happy people.

Sounds very much like a tech environment.

No problem at all Jay. TBH I struggle to comprehend how anyone can't see it like that.

One interesting factor, is that women will tend, in general, to be more compliant and agree to measures and rules that are meant to create social harmony - even at their own expense.

Whereas men, in general, are not having it at all......there is far less acceptance of transwomen amongst men than amongst women. We all know the difference, can see and feel the difference, but women are expected to pretend that they don't, even in their own space.

It's just the most insulting nonsense - and literally an act of colonisation:

Colonisation

The action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area

The action of appropriating a place or domain for one's own use

As Redtrees has instilled a company culture that explicitly involves dismissal for anyone for thinking differently to Redtrees, Redtrees has no idea what anyone thinks as Redtrees will only get Redtrees own opinions reflected back to them.

@IHeartSusanDey
Thanks for your explanation, this is how I feel but have trouble articulating without landing myself in hot water

People who give a shit about women and girls and who unapologetically centre them above men, are always accused of hysteria and stoking hate and division. Never the actual people terrorising women and girls, funnily enough.

It saddens me that the most vociferous proponents of this are stoking fears and divisions where none need exist

Please expand on this. You keep bringing it up. what do you mean by " stoking division"?

Could it be pointing out that there are males and there are females, that there are men and there are women? Do you really think that there is no difference between the two?

If difference is itself division, then yes. There are differences between many groups and cultures, the world over.

Single sex spaces exist for a reason. The reason still applies.