Page 13 | Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

McDuffy · 2020-07-17T18:36:56+00:00

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually). I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token [grin]) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

bishopgiggles · 17/07/2020 23:12

Fanta I'm also genuinely interested in how workplace employment policy has been influenced in this issue but I think we're not going to learn anything here.

Take care, OP.

frog22 · 17/07/2020 23:07

So you don't know at all. Are you just scaremongering then by saying that you do know?

I already told you I know because someone was dismissed. Don't you remember that message? You did reply to it after I sent it. You asked me to provided information that I wasn't in a position to discuss and I'm not going to stand up for an organisation dismissing a woman. Or try and humiliate her on mumsnet.

frog22 · 17/07/2020 23:02

Surely trolling a woman is against the guidelines?

bishopgiggles · 17/07/2020 23:00

Trollhunting is against the talk guidelines, frog.

FantaOra · 17/07/2020 23:00

So you don't know at all. Are you just scaremongering then by saying that you do know?

frog22 · 17/07/2020 22:59

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frog22 · 17/07/2020 22:59

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bishopgiggles · 17/07/2020 22:59

Frog, you're making no sense. What policy have you read that has informed you that you would be sacked? If you know this, you must be informed about the policy that dictates it?

frog22 · 17/07/2020 22:56

*But you posted twice explaining you would be dismissed from your organisation for expressing an opinion on pronouns. You also said you are quite senior.

So my question to you is what are the grounds for dismissal you are referring to that covers an opiy on pronouns? You must know, you have posted twice that your employer has a discrimination policy that would lead to dismissal in this situation so please explain how?*

I don't work in HR for the organisation and I don't have input into their discrimination policy. It's not my place to rational their policy on mumsnet. If you are that eager to discuss this I can send you a message with the direct phone number for HR. They are open from 8am on Monday. Just post your findings on here once you've had the conversation.

FantaOra · 17/07/2020 22:54

@frog22

Does your workplace not have a discrimination policy? I know if I put something like that in writing at work I'd be out the door.

Here's a reminder frogg 22. You said you know. Please tell us how it works? Is having an opinion on pronouns gross misconduct?

bishopgiggles · 17/07/2020 22:53

Redtrees If I was currently questioning my gender then being required to declare pronouns would be distressing for me - it'd force me to a decision I may not be ready to make and 'out' me as trans if I decided I wanted to be referred to by one set of pronouns.
I think it's fine if people wish to declare pronouns but people should be a bit more thoughtful about people who may struggle with their gender identity before making it a requirement.

Apollo440 · 17/07/2020 22:53

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RedtreesRedtrees · 17/07/2020 22:49

My business has over 300 employees and none of them has been “brave” enough to come out with the GC bullshit. Of course some may hold those views in private, but they know better than to air them in the workplace.

FantaOra · 17/07/2020 22:45

@frog22

Discrimination needs to be a lot more concrete than having a generalised opinion.. I would be interested to hear how your organisation would describe a reasonable for dismissal for gross misconduct for someone having an opinion about pronouns? What are the facts of the gross misconduct?

Obviously it's not my place to give facts on a dismissal and I'm a little surprised you would even expect this. It's a private issue for the individual to deal with and discuss when or if they are comfortable. The person involved is on mumsnet so if they want to divulge the details to you they can. But I'd be surprised if they wanted to discuss their personal circumstances with a stranger on mumsnet.

But you posted twice explaining you would be dismissed from your organisation for expressing an opinion on pronouns. You also said you are quite senior.

So my question to you is what are the grounds for dismissal you are referring to that covers an opiy on pronouns? You must know, you have posted twice that your employer has a discrimination policy that would lead to dismissal in this situation so please explain how?

MoreHairyThanScary · 17/07/2020 22:44

Must be the day for it

We had a COVID risk assessment to complete, huge amount of information on risk factors including sex

Then in the risk assessment questions asked for gender....

I pointed out to my line manger that in a risk assessment wording needs to be factual to be accurate!

( then I gave my team a mini lecture on the difference...they are bloody hcp's!! ( but young))

Soontobe60 · 17/07/2020 22:43

@RedtreesRedtrees

So it will work well for both you and your employer

If an employer decides to dismiss someone because they refuse to join in with this charade of pronouns, they deserve to be taken to an employment tribunal and made to pay a shit load in compo. What exactly is the purpose of writing pronouns in an email signature? If someone replies to my email, they just usually use the name I've signed off my email to them with.

HotSauceCommittee · 17/07/2020 22:39

I didn't get the sack, OP, although the force diversity champion wanted my name to "discuss issues" with me. Once I followed up and e-mailed her, confirming my identity, she wanted nothing more to do with me.
I must be on a list somewhere.

HotSauceCommittee · 17/07/2020 22:37

Well done op. I stood up and argued with Stonewall at work at a diversity seminar. I am pro diversity, but Stonewall, not so much.
People were tutting and shaking their heads and I was trembling as I spoke; it was really embarrassing , but I work for the police and I had to point out the problems within the criminal justice system.

RedtreesRedtrees · 17/07/2020 22:33

So it will work well for both you and your employer

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 17/07/2020 22:32

I'm still pissed off about the female representation in the Paw Patrol gang, Everest is peripheral at best.

Original poster

McDuffy · 17/07/2020 22:19

@RedtreesRedtrees

OP I hope you’ll take time to reflect on your views during your forthcoming period of unemployment.

Ooh I'd love some free time! This year has been so busy. I'll spend some of it pondering why He-Man's sister(?) wasn't called She-Woman. And why Mr Men's female equivalents weren't called Ms Women. Not all of those Little Misses could've been the same size else they'd have been normal rather than little. It's all comparative. And I'm still pissed off about the female representation in the Paw Patrol gang, Everest is peripheral at best.

OP posts:

frog22 · 17/07/2020 22:15

Discrimination needs to be a lot more concrete than having a generalised opinion.. I would be interested to hear how your organisation would describe a reasonable for dismissal for gross misconduct for someone having an opinion about pronouns? What are the facts of the gross misconduct?

Obviously it's not my place to give facts on a dismissal and I'm a little surprised you would even expect this. It's a private issue for the individual to deal with and discuss when or if they are comfortable. The person involved is on mumsnet so if they want to divulge the details to you they can. But I'd be surprised if they wanted to discuss their personal circumstances with a stranger on mumsnet.

7Days · 17/07/2020 22:05

Yes, I've noticed that too.

FantaOra · 17/07/2020 21:58

A reason, not a reasonable!

FantaOra · 17/07/2020 21:57

@frog22

You mean I'm the one discriminating? I just stated it can be seen as controversial and possibly as compelled speech, and also it could be difficult for people with autism or for those with English as a foreign language.

Yes my employer would see that as discrimination. If you company is 'woke' as you say would HR not be critical of you posting this? I'm just curious as I'm quite senior in my organisation and they are very 'inclusive'. I know my job would be on the line if I did this. I'm not criticising you I'm more interested from an employment point of view.

Discrimination needs to be a lot more concrete than having a generalised opinion.. I would be interested to hear how your organisation would describe a reasonable for dismissal for gross misconduct for someone having an opinion about pronouns? What are the facts of the gross misconduct?