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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Action Aid - no such thing as a biological female

514 replies

Apileofballyhoo · 15/07/2020 16:48

Has this been posted already? It's from an email they sent. I saw it on Twitter so I'll be back with links.

Action Aid - no such thing as a biological female
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Tootletum · 15/07/2020 22:36

I'm sorry but this is beyond a joke. I want a judicial review into sex discrimination. Against women, who don't exist without men. I mean have these people just read a bit too much Genesis and Leviticus? If were made from Adam's rib then it seems Adam can do whatever he likes, including denying our existence. And of course as Leviticus sets out very clearly, women have dirty bodies. So....just do away with them.

deepwatersolo · 15/07/2020 22:35

The idea that sex does not exist is embedded...

Sure Jan. Totally believable you guys don't think you are sexed.

WeeBisom · 15/07/2020 22:34

The crazy thing about this for me is this idea that biological sex doesn't exist is an idea that has percolated down from Postmodernist gender theory from universities in the USA. Saying that biological sex isn't real ONLY makes sense if you accept the wider postmodernist theory (everything is discourse and textual, there's no objective values, there's no human agents underlying our social constructs, blah blah.) The point is this...Action Aid is clearly not postmodernist. I don't see them quoting Focault or Judith Butler. They are a charity engaged in real work in the real world which affects real people. So why on earth are they buying into snippets of this gender theory crap? Quite simply they don't need to and they have no good reason to do so. They don't believe, I presume, that one ought to 'subvert and queer the hegemonic discourse and that is the only way that one can destabilise the dominant power relations'.

If you take the conclusions of postmodernist theory out of their context and into the real world it is just batshit insane. I have no idea why charities and companies are going along with this!

deepwatersolo · 15/07/2020 22:28

And there I was believeing 'self determination' meant determining my own path. But no, it just means I can imagine sh*te and others have to affirm it.

OldCrone · 15/07/2020 22:27

From Maya's article:

The idea that sex does not exist is embedded in ActionAidUK’s trans rights policy document, signed this off at the highest level and the senior leadership team has been trained on it.

Has anyone been able to find this document on their website? I can't find it.

Miriel · 15/07/2020 22:23

The only response to "we define women as anyone who self-identifies as a woman" is to ask "self-identifies as a what?" What is this unnameable entity you are self-IDing as?

This. It's so frustrating how many people fail to see that it isn't a definition. It's even more obvious if you switch it out for a nonsense word.

I'm a qwerty.
What's a qwerty?
A qwerty is anyone who self-identifies as a qwerty.

It tells you absolutely nothing about what a qwerty actually is, unless the answer is that the speaker is playing a postmodern language game and there's no objective real-world referent. That isn't an answer to be taken seriously.

Apollo440 · 15/07/2020 22:16

Can I suggest Plan International as an alternative charity. Seem to know what a girl is (campaign is called 'Because I'm a girl..) and even the mandatory lbgt+ bit refers to girls.

Bicnod · 15/07/2020 22:13

I can't believe this. I worked for ActionAid for several years (and was a supporter prior to this). The thing I loved most/was most proud of was that women's rights was a thread running through all their work. And now this. Ffs.

EwwSprouts · 15/07/2020 22:11

Not happy. Not happy at all.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/07/2020 22:10

"Self-determination of our bodies" doesn't mean "identifiying as something are bodies aren't "Hmm

highame · 15/07/2020 22:09

I get the impression that Stonewall are going all out for this. They are hoping they will have gender so firmly in all institutions that it will be difficult for the government to to unwind everything.

It will get more and more difficult the backtrack. I just hope there is a strong recognition that a minority are running this and the majority don't buy it at all

deepwatersolo · 15/07/2020 22:06

200 million women and girls have undergone female genital mutilation.

Impossible. If there is no such thing as a female body, there is no such thing as female genitalia. So, gladly, that problem has evaporated. Thanks, ActionAid!

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2020 22:04

Right in the middle of the chain is the Safeguarding Framework. Development NGOs have been struggling to get their house in order over sexual abuse and exploitation. As the Safeguarding Framework sets out the term “sexual abuse” means the
actual or threatened physical intrusion of a sexual nature, whether by force or under unequal or coercive conditions.
But at Action Aid they believe there is no such thing as a male or female body (or at least they are willing to say they believe this) and no need for single sex spaces in which people can get changed and washed in privacy from member of the opposite sex.
Try talking about threats of a sexual nature without acknowledging that sex exists.
Try having a robust safeguarding culture where there is “zero tolerance” for anyone admitting that they do think male and female bodies exists , or disagreeing with the idea that any male who self-determines as having a female identity should be allowed to share spaces where women and girls are undressing.

From maya again SAFEGUARDING

Thisismytimetoshine · 15/07/2020 22:02
Suffering Jesus, that is fucking terrifying. What is happening??
nepeta · 15/07/2020 22:02

If there is no such thing as a biologically female body, then there is no such thing as sex-based oppression. So old-fashioned feminism (which fought against sex-based oppression) was always unnecessary.

The reference to the discrimination nonbinaries and trans men experience is a direct refutation of that initial religious tenet of the movement. They are discriminated because of their female bodies, though a few male nonbinary people could also get some minor hassle for their presentation.

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2020 22:00

A reminder:
200 million women and girls have undergone female genital mutilation.
In many settings women do 10 x unpaid care work as men
200 million women need but lack access to contraception
25 million unsafe abortions take place
130 million school-aged girls do not attend school
Thirty-five percent of women experience physical or sexual intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime
Action Aid’s response suggests these things don’t happen to women and girls on account of being born female, but because they self-determined into the class of people to whom these things happen (and could self determine out).
If you think perhaps this is the work of an under supervised social media assistant, an Action Aid internal policy document will quickly disabuse of that notion.
The idea that sex does not exist is embedded in ActionAidUK’s trans rights policy document, signed this off at the highest level and the senior leadership team has been trained on it.

From Maya’s piece above

ArriettyJones · 15/07/2020 21:56

Fuxake.

OldCrone · 15/07/2020 21:54

I suppose the first step would be to ensure they are actually bound to UK law. If they are, then I suppose a second step would be to write to their legal team asking for clarification. And then take it from there.

As well as being registered in the UK they also do work in the UK, so they definitely are bound by UK law.

www.actionaid.org.uk/about-us/actionaids-work-in-the-uk

Action Aid - no such thing as a biological female
deepwatersolo · 15/07/2020 21:44

Actually, if there is indeed no such thing as a biologically male/female body, then it follows that a person's genitalia do not determine their sex - not gender, as they state.

These people can't even consistently apply their own logic to their reasoning.

Gwynfluff · 15/07/2020 21:44

If self-defining of the body is a feminist right and the women and girls ‘self-define’ as women, it reads to me that they’ve agreed to their oppression.

It’s sod all to do with self-definition and everything to do with being defined by the patriarchy.

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2020 21:39

The only response to "we define women as anyone who self-identifies as a woman" is to ask "self-identifies as a what?" What is this unnameable entity you are self-IDing as?

Well yes what is this women thing you are self identify as

Justhadathought · 15/07/2020 21:38

One of Actionaid's trustees is Helen Pankhurst, a women's rights campaigner and granddaughter of Sylvia Pankhurst (suffragette). I wonder what she makes of this

So many charities have now become big institutional behemoths, and one arm does not know what the other arm is doing. It is an industry. Look at what happened with Oxfam in recent times. Sexual exploitation of women and girls by outreach workers, as well as senior officials.

DadDadDad · 15/07/2020 21:34

Another trustee is Joanna Maycock, who is Secretary General at European Women's Lobby. By the way, I'm not trying to make trouble for these trustees, just wondering if they are aware of this line from the charity?

DadDadDad · 15/07/2020 21:31

One of Actionaid's trustees is Helen Pankhurst, a women's rights campaigner and granddaughter of Sylvia Pankhurst (suffragette). I wonder what she makes of this?