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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Guardian job cuts

405 replies

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 15/07/2020 15:11

twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=19

A lot comments standing up for women. What was that phrase again, go woke.....?

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CharlieParley · 18/07/2020 13:24

My mandatory Ethics Journalism lecture didn't include as acceptable journalistic practice anything about accepting money from outside organisations to write about their subject of choice.

What I did learn in media theory however are the many ways the media can manipulate its audience.

One of the simplest techniques, beloved by state broadcasters and private media alike is a theory called agenda setting.

Even if everything else about your reporting is above board, by focusing on certain subjects and/or ignoring others, you can manipulate your audience's perception of reality.

Of course in today's world that theory, first posited in 1972, no longer applies the same. We can seek out what stories we want to read, we can find the most obscure stuff on countless news blogs and the public can very much now be thought of as setting the agenda if you look at how social media stories and influencers now seem to dominate the traditional media.

And undeniably, as many of us are now aware, the public's perception of reality is even easier to skew through social media. Money talks, unashamedly so, and unregulated the rule of corporations is absolute.

Arguably however, one thing that hasn't changed is the legitimacy that is conferred on a topic if traditional media outlets pick it up. And runs and runs with it, like the Guardian has done with their intense promotion of transgender ideology.

And by steadfastly refusing to report that one stakeholder group has been very effectively prevented from freely participating in a democratic process about a law reform, where - like all other stakeholder groups - they sought discuss how this legal reform may impact on their rights, the Guardian (amongst many other media outlets) has very firmly positioned itself not only in opposition to that stakeholder group but also in opposition to the democratic process itself.

NotBadConsidering · 18/07/2020 13:08

@Siablue

I am sure Marina does appreciate the support. She seems quite friendly with Suzanne so I doubt she signed the letter. A lot of the journalists who are tweeting have nice responses saying you are the reason I subscribe. Ben BT didn’t get any responses saying they liked his column just a lot of angry women. His response was really cloth eared when so many of his colleagues are going to lose their jobs.
She didn’t sign it. You can read the letter and those who signed it here:

www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr64n9

I’m sure she does appreciate the support, and I’m sure she’s GC (note her recently retweeting criticism of the term “vulva owners”), it’s more of a case of several writers thanking everyone and anyone for their contributions. Either they’re all lovely and respond to all their mentions regularly, or they know they’re on a bit of a PR drive.

highame · 18/07/2020 12:55

Anybody else openmouthed at the weird tweets emanating from a Guardian 'writer' over the last few hours?

Do her parents know? because she's very naughty and they ought to be told

KaronAVyrus · 18/07/2020 12:52

Tbh even if the guardian printed a full and frank apology for their blatant misogyny Over the past decade I really don’t think I could go back to reading it. They’ve burnt their bridges as far as I’m concerned.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/07/2020 12:49

Anybody else openmouthed at the weird tweets emanating from a Guardian 'writer' over the last few hours? I see she has her tweets embedded on her website, so any prospective employer would be seeing these unedifying utterances too. I hope they do. She says she is a content strategist. Based in Toronto. There's a lot more where this comes from.

The Guardian job cuts
The Guardian job cuts
wellbehavedwomen · 18/07/2020 12:48

@Floisme

The problem for me is that, even if they were to walk back on this, they have still demonstrated to me on too many occasions that reporting the news accurately is not their priority. Which means I no longer trust them on anything.
Sadly, I agree.

I'd missed how appalling the Cologne reporting was. It's the child grooming gangs mentality all over again, isn't it? Women and girls don't matter, if there's a risk that racists are emboldened.

Race matters. So does sex. If you're willing to throw women under the bus to protect another marginalised group, you're a misogynist. I note that there's never any reluctance to call women out on racism, which is as it should be. What isn't is the refusal to call out abuse towards women, if there's ever any conflict with other political priorities. And we see that again and again and again.

The rape situation should be a huge campaigning drive by the Guardian, if they were really bothered by misogyny. So should sexual assaults in psychiatric hospital wards, which have been mixed sex for decades, and the consequences for women well understood - but they couldn't care less. Instead, they dedicate endless pages to navel-gazing on which gender identity boxes people prefer.

We need a new left leaning paper. One that actually recognises that women are human. Meanwhile, women are voting with their feet, which is shitty for the good journos, but what else can we do?

Siablue · 18/07/2020 12:44

I am sure Marina does appreciate the support. She seems quite friendly with Suzanne so I doubt she signed the letter. A lot of the journalists who are tweeting have nice responses saying you are the reason I subscribe.
Ben BT didn’t get any responses saying they liked his column just a lot of angry women. His response was really cloth eared when so many of his colleagues are going to lose their jobs.

teawamutu · 18/07/2020 12:43

@ThePurported

Interesting sidenote. If true, the Guardian may well deserve its fate. To throw women under the bus is bad enough, but to do so for money is even worse.

No, it's not true. In that particular case, Open Society Foundations funded reporting on gender equality. The Guardian chose to spend the money on its favourite topic, gender identity.
OSF has funded various other journalism projects the G has been involved in, like the Panama Papers investigation. It doesn't dictate the content.

Even after everything I've seen and read, I hadn't picked up on the sidestep. Fucksake, Guardian.
OhHolyJesus · 18/07/2020 12:41

I'm very low on Karen Krona because I keep needing to donate it to crowdfunders, but if I didn't need to do that, I might have spare cash for the Guardian, but seeing as I'm all out of sympathy as well (and that void has been replaced by sheer fury) I'll spend every last penny helping women before I feel anything for the press that betrayed us.

They can swing for it.

DidoLamenting · 18/07/2020 12:22

I like the idea of the "Karen Krona"

I expect for the wokey- cokey brigade I'm a Karen and I've got plenty of krona.

highame · 18/07/2020 12:20

Karen Kartell but nowt wrong with krona and very apt

Floisme · 18/07/2020 12:15

The problem for me is that, even if they were to walk back on this, they have still demonstrated to me on too many occasions that reporting the news accurately is not their priority. Which means I no longer trust them on anything.

OhHolyJesus · 18/07/2020 12:11

*krona

OhHolyJesus · 18/07/2020 12:09

I know many appear to take the public temperature in Twitter but I hope some at the Guardian are also reading this too!

Increasingly I am convinced the tide will properly turn when companies and organisations start losing money and donations in a big way. Statistically speaking there simply can't be that many queer or trans 'folk' to support business on their own, if say, they lose a significant part of their female audience or customer base.

All the buyer and reviewers of knickers on M&S can't make up for the loss in sales from all the women who shop there and in food section and in the home section etc.

I'm also looking at you BBC and Centre Parcs - not necessarily TopShop etc.

The Pink Pound was once the customer base every high street retailer wanted to capture, maybe the 'Karen Crona' will be next? Grin (sorry I'll try to come up with a better name than that!)

wellbehavedwomen · 18/07/2020 12:08

I think Marina Hyde is brilliant. It's reasonable that she wants to keep her job, and nice that she's thanking people.

I disagree with the Graun, clearly, and am horrified by where they've headed on women. But that doesn't make every journo who writes for them responsible. There are some really good people writing there, who will go down with them. It's one of the reasons I really hope they can find a way to turn this around, and allow women a voice on gender and sex.

NotBadConsidering · 18/07/2020 11:48

I was on Marina Hyde’s twitter feed and I noticed something. In the replies to this tweet:

mobile.twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1283444181420171265

Marina is going all out to thank everyone who had said they’re subscribing or donating. Then there’s this tweet:

mobile.twitter.com/Marks_Jon/status/1283477243918987264

Some random guy tweets about his favourite writers and they all chip in and reply with thanks. I wonder if they’re under instruction to make an effort to show good will to anyone they can?

And why is it that they’ll thank people for subscribing because of how good the reporting on Spurs football is, but they won’t acknowledge those who won’t subscribe because of their reporting on women’s rights?

EmpressLangClegSpartacus · 18/07/2020 11:09

All they have to do is say - ‘we need a proper discussion/exploration of the issues being raised by women and we will do that’, it’s not that hard

You wouldn’t think so, would you? But they seem incapable of getting their heads round the idea.

I don’t think I’d trust them anyway, even if they said that. I’d want to see real action & change, not just words.

Kit19 · 18/07/2020 11:05

It’s really eye opening to see how many ppl pleading for ppl to support the guardian are getting multiple replies along the lines of “we would but they don’t support women so no”. There is a particular joy in seeing the number of ppl reminding them that 300 guardian employees signed a letter to cancel another employee because they didn’t like her views

I would hope that some serious meetings are happening at The guardian atm

All they have to do is say - ‘we need a proper discussion/exploration of the issues being raised by women and we will do that’, it’s not that hard

ThePurported · 18/07/2020 11:02

Yes I agree, it's worse. In a way it would comforting to think that the Guardian is just vulnerable to outside influence because it's running out of cash, but that would be letting it off the hook.

SerenityNowwwww · 18/07/2020 10:55

Supposedly posted by a writer for the guardian... it would explain a lot.

The Guardian job cuts
CharlieParley · 18/07/2020 10:48

No, it's not true. In that particular case, Open Society Foundations funded reporting on gender equality. The Guardian chose to spend the money on its favourite topic, gender identity.

I don't know about you, but that makes it even worse for me.

Thanks for the info though.

ThePurported · 18/07/2020 09:56

Interesting sidenote. If true, the Guardian may well deserve its fate. To throw women under the bus is bad enough, but to do so for money is even worse.

No, it's not true. In that particular case, Open Society Foundations funded reporting on gender equality. The Guardian chose to spend the money on its favourite topic, gender identity.
OSF has funded various other journalism projects the G has been involved in, like the Panama Papers investigation. It doesn't dictate the content.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/07/2020 09:16

Free from political and commercial bias, eh?

An amusing thing to say when one's bias can be seen from outer space.

contactusdeletus · 18/07/2020 08:31

@CharlieParley

Interesting sidenote. If true, the Guardian may well deserve its fate. To throw women under the bus is bad enough, but to do so for money is even worse.
That would be interesting, given that in their appeals for reader contributions The Guardian describe themselves thusly:

"The Guardian’s independence means we interrogate the actions of those in power without fear. With no shareholders or billionaire owner, our journalism is free from political and commercial bias – this makes us different. We can give a voice to the oppressed and neglected, and stand in solidarity with those who are calling for a fairer future."

Free from political and commercial bias, eh?

MrsNoah2020 · 18/07/2020 08:21

The idea that women should stay out of the public sphere if we'd like not to be sexually assaulted is misogyny of a very old school kind, and many women were shocked to see it expressed so openly in The Guardian

I don't think Hinsliff was advocating that view, but she was both attributing it to refugee men and - worse - implying that it was understandable, even excusable. And there was no call to arms to protect women's rights. So the article says, "Refugee men think it's OK to rape successful women, and who can blame them?"