Michaela Coel called out over comments on 'responsibility' and sexual assault

If I can tell myself that there was something I could do, pinpoint where it went wrong, other than he is a rapist I can give myself the power to be confident enough to go out again and live life without the debilitating knowledge that it could happen again at any time and there’s nothing I can do about it

I understand that and, yeah, who am I (or anyone else) to criticize how a woman copes with an attack on herself. I did not intend to criticize this as an individual's coping strategy. (I might adopt it, too, in case of an assault.)

At the same time I feel, instilling this consciousness into women systematically (by assaulting them pretty much systematically, as happens across cultures, apparently as a corner stone of patriarchy), results in a culture, where the behaviour of women is heavily policed and self-policed.
It is like the social contract that women have with society is blatantly broken on a regular basis, and women still try to renegotiate the contract and act like under the new terms it will be upheld, because acknowledging the alternative is too horrific to contemplate...

Sorry that was meant to be in reply to Floral

We do. We beat ourselves up over what we could have done in a way I don't think men often really do.

Why do we do this to ourselves? Something awful happened to me at work a while ago, to do with my female biology, nothing that was in my control, and I didn't feel bad about that, but I was cross with myself for feeling ashamed afterwards and not being able to shrug it off as nothing, like I felt I should be 'stronger'. We feel how we feel. We react how we react.

If I heard this from anybody else I would be compassionate, caring. But I cant be that way to myself. I blame myself, maybe not so much for it, but for my reaction.

Same here I blamed myself for a long time. I had to forgive myself, and accept that it wasn't my fault.

Well, it's what happens when some survivor's explanations of our coping mechanisms get misapplied to broader things like rape prevention - which is entirely down to stopping men, any men, believing they are ever entitled to a woman's body in the first place and scaring the living shit out of them with serious sentences and genuine social oppobrium for raping.

It's a category error, but like fuck will I be blaming women for talking about how we cope with rape. I will blame the men who rape and those excuse, minimise and act as rape apologists.

I really, really, really don't think that's where Michaela Coel was going with that, at all, as I think any familiarity with her work would demonstrate.

But it is where this logic invariably ends when consistently applied.

When you dare to face that, for me personally, I gained some sort of power. I don’t know why. But when I allowed myself to just look and go ‘And there was the minute when perhaps I was looking somewhere else [...] and that’s when it happened’.

Oh, ffs, we all know where this ends. 'I gained some power, realizing that I could choose not to ...walk the street alone... be out and about after 10...travel alone... travel without male protector ... show my hair..'. In the end you are under a Burka and never walk the street without faimily member, and guess what, women who live like that still get raped.

Some of my greatest experiences were while travelling to secluded places with 1-4 people (half the time exlcusively males) I was acquainted with but not close friends to rock climb (camping sometimes even without a tent, only in sleeping bags out in the open) to rock climb.
That's freedom ffs. And I did that well knowing that I could have had 'the power to stay home' in order to not get victim blamed if something bad should happen. (It never did, luckily. And no, this stuff didn't include any romantic or sexual 'encounters'. It wasn't about that at all).

I just can't...

I'm so sorry Clean. I don't think your reaction is at all unrealistic. Everyone I'm sure likes to think they'd struggle and shout, make it clear they wanted it to stop. But I can't imagine that's actually the case. Personally I'd be more likely to go for the keep still and hope it's over quickly school of reaction. Thankfully I've never had to find out. What I'm trying to say is there is no right way to react and no wrong way to feel.

I really struggle with all this.
I was raped not too long ago. I wasn't drunk, I was in someone's house and we were having consensual sexual activity.
I completely pushed it to the back of my mind. I forgot about it. Unfortunately I have had to have medical treatment as a result which means I had to recall it.
I judge myself. I'm a middle aged woman. I'm strong. I did nothing. I didnt fight back. I find myself even questioning whether they thought I consented. I blame myself every way possible.
If I heard this from anybody else I would be compassionate, caring. But I cant be that way to myself. I blame myself, maybe not so much for it, but for my reaction.

If I had seen myself as completely passive in the situation, I could not have recovered.

We all heal in different ways, and with that comes different perspective.

What I am saying is not at all that these experiences could have been stopped by you "if only". What I am talking about is that for many of us, recognising the things that made us vulnerable is an insight which becomes something than empowers us and gives us more autonomy in the future. I am also a rape survivor, and one of the things that made me vulnerable to my rapist was that at the time, I lived with someone who frightened me, and on that occasion now-DH was out for the evening and I was afraid to go home. I no longer allow into my home anyone who makes me feel unsafe there. Had I been older and wiser, I also might have recognised the way he was bullying me and manipulating me into drinking. I have those skills now, and they help to protect and enable me. And these insights have not made me feel that it was my fault. They have freed me of that feeling. Recognising that there was an alternative universe where I didn't get raped by that man on that night does not remove his complete responsibility for what he did to me.

If I had seen myself as completely passive in the situation, I could not have recovered. I had to see myself as a person with autonomy and control over my own actions to do the work of moving on.

Sexual assault and rape can happen in the most unbelievable and unexpected circumstances. Some of us just don't have the option of a "what if" and we just have to accept that and learn to live with it.

Yes I completely agree. There was nothing you could have done.

And while the rapist is 100% responsible for having perpetuated it, rape is as often a crime of opportunity as any other, and to visualise ourselves as helpless objects being carried through life and acted on by whatever perps and protectors happen to be around is no help to anyone.

On an intellectual level true, in practice it's rather different and quite difficult,especially if there was no opportunity to do different.

When I was 13 I was playing cards with some classmates in their room at camp. 6 more showed up(not their room) and attacked me while everyone else watched. One girl tried to help, but her boyfriend told her to sit down and be quiet or they'll turn on her. She did as she was told. What could I have done differently,bar having a crystal ball to let me know it would happen?

When I was 14 my grandfather came to say hello. I was in my own house, in my room. Mum was in the kitchen. I fought back then.. but you know, the damage was done. I asked mum if I was a slut. What could I have done differently?

When I was 17 my maths tutor started touching me under my jumper during a session. 5 other girls at the table with me. His wife in the kitchen,his son in his room. I was paralysed, I refused to believe it was happening. What could I have done differently?. My responsibility I guess for going to the second session.

I don't even remember what happened with my cousin, I was fairly young and I only get flashes and smells. Maybe there were things I could've done..

Sexual assault and rape can happen in the most unbelievable and unexpected circumstances. Some of us just don't have the option of a "what if" and we just have to accept that and learn to live with it.

for you and everyone else on the thread who has been assaulted/abused.

Eresh, I'm glad, I didn't think we were at odds on this.

I couldn't watch all of it, but what I saw was very good.

And YY to hypersexualization. I walked that route after trauma too. I understand it's common after childhood abuse.

Given the recommendations, I may watch this series, I've been wondering whether I would find it too much.

I don't want to derail the thread but this is what I am referring to in my last comment and I think it is relevant to the idea of powerlessness and taking back power.

medium.com/@chloe.maughan.writing/sex-after-trauma-part-1-hypersexuality-ac1c5bd18c08

For me the problem is not with personal belief or actions it’s with how loud voices about those shape societal responses. It doesn’t matter what the thing was, people will always go over the detail and think if only I’d...

When it is rape or sexual assault the perpetrator decided to rape or sexually assault. It was a choice. Their choice.

The victim did not choose to be assaulted. They do not need to be hating themselves for not doing this or doing that alongside coping with their new unwanted identity as a victim of sexual assault. If it helps people to think if only, great. If it doesn’t then help to cope with the terrible truth of reality is needed.

I don’t see any suggestion of victim responsibility in her comments. I do see it in many other places.

As in I thought you explained it very well and it resonated with me. I became hypersexualised after I was raped, which is another fairly common coping mechanism for wanting to take back power. I had no boundaries.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. I don't think there's a wrong way to deal with sexual asssult. Unfortunately the cultural narrative tends towards blaming victims. Remember Eamonn Holmes with "you'll get a taxi in future won't you"?

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/eamonn-holmes-slammed-over-remarks-to-rape-victim-on-tv-28674509.html

FWIW when you articulated your position I thought it was very clear what you meant.

FWIW, I do think some people on the thread are using the comments to leverage open the suggestion that women are partially responsible for their rapists.

I'd like to underline that what I have described is a coping mechanism, part of the healing process, and in no way an objective thing. I cannot stress that enough. Women are allowed to work through their individual trauma in the ways that help the best. No one should use that as an excuse to press the tiniest scintillating of blame on them. It's not keeping us as perpetual victims to say we are not responsible for being attacked, it is a simple statement of fact.

repeatedly underlined that it's fine as long as it isn't presented as a way all survivors should respond.

I said that before anyone else did. I don't have to agree with her comments.