If being trans is just like being gay....

For starters I'm 5'2". Never mind the tits, periods and birthing bit. I just have to get the fuck on with dealing with the shitty gender roles and don't have the luxury of being able to reject them. Its very much a male priviledge to be able to.

Trans Ideology is ultimately a MAN'S way of getting out of gender stereotypes. It serves men not women. Even females who are fully signed up, gold star transmen. There is NOTHING in it for women.

I suppose in a way if gender and sex can be counted as different things, then that's fine.
To say your a transwoman, is to accept your not happy being a man so wish to look and behave as a woman, I am proud of all my trans friends , as non try to hide who they are.
They have no wish to pretend they have swapped sex, which they know is biological impossible, may never intend to be surgically altered, and seem very happy about this.

Nice insight Milady but surely the feeling of 'wrong body' is exactly that, not 'wrong clothes'. Transsexuals are distressed by their physical body and want to change it as far as science allows which is very limited and unnatural. Thats my understanding anyway.

My point was that wanting to (or not) wear dresses is not an indicator of anything other than dislike of rigid gender conformity.

Thank you for sharing your experience @MiladyRenata.

I can see how as a younger man you can get rather ‘railroaded’ into life in a certain way and it being very hard to walk away from.

Thinking of some middle aged women I know, they essentially ‘live as men’, what ever that means really. They wear jeans, jumpers, trainers or boots. Short hair. ‘Masculine’ hobbies. But women can live like this without society seeing them as a man. They don’t consider themselves as men or use male names.

I guess the dress thing is a classic example of one person's privilege being another person's punishment. I find the same is true about a lot of "male privilege"; it sounds great but if you aren't cut out to be a tough, ambitious sporty leader, it may not feel that way.

What interests me is that "trans ideology", so to speak, and GC feminism both have a similar underlying goal. Neither group wants a person's biology to dictate what kind of social role they are allowed to fill. I suppose for me being trans is an acceptance that society is gendered (and is likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future), but moving to a gender role that better suits my personality.

@MiladyRenata please don't think we hate you.
We really don't, as an older woman, I really don't mind you want to wear a dress or grow your hair, that you want heels and make up.
I just want you too see that pre op I don't want you changing in the ladies, it's no fair to little girls, they should not be forced to see male parts. Woman who have run away from male violence are still frightened of what you represent from your past, they deserve to feel safe.
If we could get you to want a third space, as a safe space, for your in between stages, woman would come out and fight for you.
While you can never be a woman, we do respect your rights to alter your outside shell too look like a woman.

I've always wondered what trans activists think the connection between stereotypes and gender is. Wanting to wear dresses is a consequence of "being a girl"? Correlated to it? A symptom of it? Or is it purely about signalling, they think the little boy doesn't want to wear dresses because dresses but in order to signal to others that he wants to be addressed as she? It all seems very muddled.

Trans people often know from a younger age but suppress it for longer as it's less socially acceptable to be trans than to be gay.

What exactly do you think trans people 'know' from a younger age @SapphosRock?

Antibles, what about the body?

It seems obvious to me that the strong social taboo on boys/men not wearing clothing associated with the female sex is the precise reason some of them develop a fetish about it.

I suspect the concept of trans would never have come about if women's clothing wasn't so verboten and loaded with the thrill of transgression. I mean if it wasn't at its heart about the clothes and the performance, why not just wear jeans and T-shirt and enjoy your ladybrain?

And @MiladyRenata - I hated wearing dresses as a child. I can remember my fury at being forced to wear them from when I was really tiny to when I was a bridesmaid at 17. Hated them.

I am not transgender and my hating dresses was not a sign that I was.

Well,no.Me too. (And I still dislike dresses as an adult)
But surely if you are trans and are having to present strictly in the stereotypical way for your birth sex then you might well want to be able to present as the opposite sex.
So (as a girl) not wanting to present as stereotypically feminine,dresses and "girl toys" doesn't make you trans.But if you are a trans boy you prob won't like them either.And vice versa.

My friends daughter hated being a girl when she was about 8. Got all her hair cut off, wouldn’t wear dresses or girls clothes, wanted to be seen as a boy, this went on for a few years.
She’s now 16 and has long hair, doesn’t wear dresses, just sports gear, and guess what, she’s a girl!
I dread to think what would have happened to her in the wrong hands.

Totally off topic but in reply to Scotsheather - don’t get rid of dresses and skirts. I hate the feeling of fabric around my lower legs and always wear above the knee skirts, usually a bit A line so they don’t constrict me when climbing over stiles etc. On the rare occasions I wear trousers I am always pulling them out of my arse/fanny and I can’t kick my legs about with the same freedom. I know most women find trousers much more comfortable. Each to their own!

Oh fuckity balls, massive bold fail there. Trying to type and breastfeed.

And @MiladyRenata - I hated wearing dresses as a child. I can remember my fury at being forced to wear them from when I was really tiny to when I was a bridesmaid at 17. Hated them.

"I am not transgender and my hating dresses was not a sign that I was.*

Ditto.

I think you're wrong now @SapphosRock. I know fir a fact that it is much cooler to gold out as trans than as lesbian for teenage girls. I would not be surprised if there was a good deal of correlation between that and the huge numbers of young women identifying as trans.

And @MiladyRenata - I hated wearing dresses as a child. I can remember my fury at being forced to wear them from when I was really tiny to when I was a bridesmaid at 17. Hated them.

I am not transgender and my hating dresses was not a sign that I was.

Maybe there will be a concerted effort to normalise males wearing skirts and dresses in the same vain as we forced our school to let us wear trousers. Better still they will be consigned to history both both sexes as the impractical and "pretty" garments they always have been like the gymslips and crinolines.

Back to the original question, self answering.

Do any other groups of people systematically try to bring others down as part of bringing themselves up? Real question, probably badly worded but I hope it is understood.

What are you basing your reasoning on OP? Can you link to any studies?

In my experience gay people generally know they are gay any time from 11 or 12 onwards (ie puberty) and coming out is personal to each individual. Some people may not feel same sex attraction until 30s, 40s or later.

Trans people often know from a younger age but suppress it for longer as it's less socially acceptable to be trans than to be gay.

A female relative who was at primary school around the millennium (trying to be reasonably vague) insisted they were a boy for years 5 and 6. Changed their name at school and home and refused to answer any other, presented as a boy in all ways she could manage. It stopped when she changed schools for year 7. She'd been bullied really badly. As an adult she's been diagnosed as autistic. The impact of bullying, parental and peer opinion and cultural environment on children, particularly the neurodivergent, is still underestimated i think.

My gender dysphoria didn't suddenly materialise in my 40s. It's been there from an early age. One of my earliest memories is being upset at my sister but not me being allowed to wear a dress to a family celebration

Have you read Grayson Perry's account of his transvestitism? He not only wanted to wear female clothes ( from about the age of 4/5), but he wanted to be 'treated' like a girl too - which is why he came up with 'Claire' ( the 'identity' he used a lot in the earlier days of this celebrity.

For him there was also, always, a very definite sexual element to the dressing up too. A thrill. It's a really interesting read The portrait of the Artist as a Young Girl

Her attitude was my son wanted to play with dolls, so of course I did what any parent would do and take him to the doctor. She appeared to genuinely believe that toy choice could be 'wrong'

Was it not the case that the child's father did not like him being 'girl;y'; playing with girl toys and so on?

I was thinking about this earlier on today, and could well imagine a father belittling his child and asking he whether he "was a really a girl?" Or suggesting that "only girls" played with certain types of toy - planting the seed that maybe this was the case - only for it to be watered and further nurtured by the recent advent of transgender ideology (that is an automatic given for many young people brought up with social media and so on).

I'd say that the vast majority of those young boys, if left to develop naturally, would turn out to be gay.