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Flora Gill - annoying article in The Times

159 replies

Theluggage15 · 12/07/2020 00:52

Article on cancel culture. Read the first bit then there was this paragraph:

‘ For example, for my generation — I’m 29 — the right of trans people to be protected is as indisputable as the right to sexual or racial equality. If you’re focusing only on the tiny number of women who could be at threat from men pretending to be trans, instead of the real threat faced by trans women now, then you’re not fighting for women — you’re fighting against a type of woman you don’t value.’

Want to go to sleep but feeling really angry. So depressing reading this, I feel worse for some reason when this sort of view comes from intelligent young women.

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groundcontroltomontydon · 04/08/2021 22:51

she had more vitality and talent in her little finger than any number of Jessicas and Jemimas have in their whole boring bodies
When JB's good she's very good Grin

TheHandmadeTails · 04/08/2021 18:24

www.spiked-online.com/2021/08/03/the-scourge-of-hereditary-columnists/

Julie Burchill article mentions Flora Gill as well as Dawn Foster and Giles Coren’s comments.

dyslek · 01/08/2021 09:59

Isent she the one who thinks children should watch porn, porn made for children. Creepy af.

NoWireHangersEver · 31/07/2021 10:23

This whole affair is quite something lol

  1. I think it's hilarious that Flora is pretending to be the 'young, new hip generation'. There's a huge community of GC girls on tumblr who are as young as 15 or 16 in some cases and somehow we figured it out. She's ancient to us - millennials are solidly adults at this point
  1. I saw that 'starter porn' tweet when it was first reposted and assumed it was by a sex worker with some kind of mental issue or impediment. Did not assume it to be by a journalist and the daughter of the ex Home Secretary! Jesus Christ
Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2021 00:51

At the risk of sounding like a bumper sticker, I'm with Jesus

Grin
NiceGerbil · 31/07/2021 00:46

Again and I know it's boring!

Women and girls with money are in no way isolated from how men and boys can be. Yes some groups get way more shit than others. But of course women and girls all get shit. Maybe not the Queen.

I think it's handy to think as it is kind of an explanation that explains it all away.

I don't believe that's what it is though.

Men are men and boys are boys and enough of them are iffy that money can't protect you from it all.

I think it's another reason. I don't know what. But that's not the reason.

Additionally most people can do empathy.

The women who do this I have a few ideas but I think it's probably another thread.

groundcontroltomontydon · 30/07/2021 11:53

At the risk of sounding like a bumper sticker, I'm with Jesus

alkanet · 30/07/2021 11:51

Well, she's a bit "let them eat cake," isn't she? As for the entry level porn for children, wtaf!??? I really hope she doesn't have kids.

BaronMunchausen · 30/07/2021 11:45

@Beamur

Also if you're saying only a tiny amount of women will be affected, you're also saying that these women are acceptable collateral damage to accommodate another 'tiny' minority. I'm not willing to accept that.
Absolutely - they're dismissed in the cause of self-id.

The number of females who are murdered is also 'tiny' (around 240 out of 34 million), so stop raising insignificant things.

Beamur · 30/07/2021 11:28

Also if you're saying only a tiny amount of women will be affected, you're also saying that these women are acceptable collateral damage to accommodate another 'tiny' minority. I'm not willing to accept that.

BaronMunchausen · 30/07/2021 11:13

”If you’re focusing only on the tiny number of women who could be at threat from men pretending to be trans”
She is saying two things here: 1) no women could be ‘at threat’ from genuine transwomen; and 2) the number of women who could be ‘under threat’ from men in general ‘pretending’ to be tw is “tiny”.

Someone with Gill’s level of class privilege may well think women’s rights are a done deal from long ago, but both of these assumptions are so obviously preposterous.

Beamur · 30/07/2021 10:11

@LazyViper

Pushing 30 is a bit old for this ‘you oldies are all out of touch relics’ schtick. Grow up, Flora.
Quite. Flora us no doubt quite clever and is used to being told she is. But to think, given her achingly privileged background that she is some kind of 'everywoman' voice is staggeringly misplaced.
LazyViper · 30/07/2021 09:42

Pushing 30 is a bit old for this ‘you oldies are all out of touch relics’ schtick. Grow up, Flora.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 30/07/2021 09:18

The last par is even worse - self righteous drivel by someone who, one suspects, was offered a writing perch at the Times on the strength of her surname … Classic circular logic: ie the real problem with those who disagree with me is that they disagree with me

This, 100%. What gets me down about this nepotism is all the talented, conscientious writers whose voices we don’t hear because they haven’t got the right parents or contacts.

NiceGerbil · 30/07/2021 01:11

Invalid is a very strange word for the context.

Things like train tickets and parking permits can be invalid.

How can a belief, an argument etc be invalid?

It's nonsense.

irresistibleoverwhelm · 30/07/2021 01:09

@Pretaxanger

She's said this now.

@FloraEGill

I think it's very hard to keep teens away from porn. Most 14/15 year olds understand computers far better than their parents and will easily work a VPN

Setting aside the porn issue I'm agog at the stupid age comment. Most parents of 14/15 year olds are 35 to 50 and have had access to computers for longer than their kids have been alive. Some of them have even worked in IT for decades Flora. Some of them invented the stuff Flora.

She really does believe anyone over 30 is a medieval relic.

I teach university students, and far from being tech-savvy digital natives, they are mostly quite staggeringly inept in terms of computer skills, often finding it very difficult to use basic programs, or do as little as carry out an efficient Google search. Sure they know how to tap on stuff, but they are definitely not tech wizards.
irresistibleoverwhelm · 30/07/2021 00:57

@Peebi

The last par is even worse - self righteous drivel by someone who, one suspects, was offered a writing perch at the Times on the strength of her surname and therefore never had to work very hard at honing her arguments - have a read and tell me whether this isn't classic circular logic: ie the real problem with those who disagree with me is that they disagree with me
Absolutely - notice that bit about the real threat to free speech come from “those who claim our stance is invalid”. That daft word “validate” again. It’s not that she’s complaining that other people think her stance is wrong. It’s “invalid”. Because “wrong” implies there’s truth involved and you can be proved right or wrong. invalid gets round that pesky necessity for one’s opinions to actually be right: it’s more important to have the opinion that’s approved of by others (“validated”) than an opinion that is right.
NiceGerbil · 29/07/2021 23:11

Unfortunately with the internet that's impossible.

Without extreme totalitarian control, which is not desirable.

OhHolyJesus · 29/07/2021 23:08

I think all porn should be banned.

Read erotica. Use your imagination. It would improve literacy and doesn't require anyone to be raped.

21Bee · 29/07/2021 23:04

I’m 29 and she most certainly doesn’t speak for me or anybody I know. Any risk to women from men is unacceptable. Minimising the experiences of women assaulted by men is gross.

NiceGerbil · 29/07/2021 22:43

In all honesty I don't think there's a way to do anything about the easy availability of porn on the net in general. It's here to stay. The only way to do it would be I suppose to have one central global org that has its own site and age verification.
You would need to get every country on the planet to buy into it. And then somehow prevent any individual or org in the whole world from putting any porn up at all. It's just not going to happen. I wish there was a way to lock all this stuff down until a certain age but that's a non starter. If I could do all that I'd be addressing the misogyny racism etc etc as well. But sadly, no.

What I would like in the UK and some of this would be easy and good globally.

  • all major search engines to only return porn results if it's obvious from the search terms that's what's wanted.
Currently if no child protection, searching perfectly innocent things can return porn hits. This would be really good for young children. It would pretty much stop the issue of them getting porn results when looking for something innocuous. And it would not prevent those looking from finding it. Small I know but a no brainer to me.

All phones computers etc etc to come with child protection pre installed and switched on for no charge and kept updated for as long as the device is in use. Many many parents don't know enough etc to do it. It should be the default. Can be switched off.
Again no help for a determined older child but helps with younger children etc.

Loads of info (not sure how? Schools are overloaded and often not great at delivering sex ed. Insisting individual parents all have to do it is a hopelessly flawed solution.
Maybe back to wheeling in a telly and watching a super brilliant prog about it all?
Get rid of all the totally dodgy info sites teaching materials that are in schools and kids will be reading. All the you can't watch porn under 18 (haha wink). If anal hurts just try this! Ok kids what sex acts can you do with these! Ok Sam you've picked mouth and anus. Can you tell the class what sex acts involve them?

That's all I can think of for now.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/07/2021 22:24

Yes. We need to make it harder to access porn that normalises spitting, choking, and otherwise harming participants, not add in a genre aimed at minors!

I wonder. Would it be possible to introduce a new, higher age rating for some subtypes of pornography?

NiceGerbil · 29/07/2021 22:10

If they've pretty much all seen porn/ watch it.

Then how will giving them lite teen porn help?

It legitimises porn in general.
If they're watching/ have seen porn anyway then what will it achieve.
What teenager ever thought yeah. I'll stick to what adults say I should have. And definitely not be way more interested in the grown up stuff.

Apart from the whole porn for kids thing.
I mean it's a totally shit idea for what she was thinking about anyway. Useless.

littlbrowndog · 29/07/2021 22:06

So we say to our teen girls and boys at 14. Here’s your entry level porn

We will be in touch on what comes next after entry level 1 porn

littlbrowndog · 29/07/2021 22:05

Entry level porn then what ?