Parents throw second gender reveal party for transgender child

Women bishops were mostly welcome but it was a small vocal minority who just pushed it back (they knew it was inevitable) and everyone else knew it was just a matter of time. Ditto gay marriage. I worked for the cofe back then (although I’m sure on some parishes it wasn’t quite as liberal, it this is what the boss told me).

The request looked like it came from a woman, and was framed as something the women bishop could do to support trans people.

I mean, the lack of awareness in the request of exactly how riddled with sexism and misogyny it was was a bit jaw dropping, and I see a lot of this religious stuff as a special area of interest. How a church which is only just squeaking women into positions of leadership, still often under protest, and despite the recent grandstanding about conversion therapy still won't openly acknowledge partnered gay clergy thinks that some TWAW chanting from the few female clergy there are will tackle sexism and misogyny is beyond me. But the Aunt Lydia asking the question seemed very pleased with herself.

Oh the hooha to get woken bishops!

Because validating males is a woman‘s job, obviously.

Why just the women bishops?

Relevant to this, just seen a clip from the recent CofE synod via video call, and there was a contribution calling upon all the women bishops to issue a statement saying TWAW. Much dismissing of 'debate', much pressing the idea of kindness, laughably a statement that the 'real problem was sexism and misogyny' (ha fucking ha, church, ha fricking ha) and a response from the male bishop the request for a TWAW fealty statement from the women bishops, saying it was a question for the women bishops to respond to.

This is as mainstream Christian as it gets in the UK.

I'm aware of that, and I'm not trying to find identical beliefs (I'd do bloody well given how niche I probably am these days). And, to be fair, the Christians I do know who support feminists or even are feminists, while many of them have more traditional views on homosexuality, treat those views as rather more academic and are very live and let live in their day to day attitudes.

It would just be nice to not have that sense of rock and hard place of 'conservative views about equal marriage, but against transing kids' at one end or 'Supports LGB adoption but enthusiastic about puberty blockers' at the other.

Still, I will take disagreement in theory over actively campaigning against women every day.

But none of us are going to be all things to all people. If we get to the core of anyone’s beliefs and opinions, none are going to be aligned completely with each other.
It’s ok to not agree on everything, otherwise debate is silenced and we get into that dangerous territory of silencing free speech. It’s more about finding common ground to fight each battle.

Well, some of the conservative Americans I know are very anti-trans, and I'm using that term deliberately, because they are not 'Gender Critical' and certainly not feminists, they simply believe men are supposed to be one thing, and women are supposed to be something else, and they put trans on the same level of wicked disobedience as women preaching in church. Which is really not great at all.

I do know plenty of Christians who are pro women and their concerns about this are based in safeguarding, child welfare and compassion for women, and they are variously Catholic, Baptist, CofE and Evangelical. But the nuance of finding, say, a pro LGB Christian who is feminist about the topics which trans issues encroach on? Rare as hens teeth, annoyingly enough.

Are there any Christian sects who don’t believe in body modifications (or tattoos) like (some?) Jewish branches. How would this play out for them?

I know a Christian family that are much happier with the concept of someone in their family being trans than anyone being gay. I guess its the lesser of the 'evils' to them (they are quite homophobic)

I'm shocked that any Christian would see transgender ideology as anything other than against God.... The Catholic Church I believe put out an encyclical last year denouncing it...

Still, having been brought up Catholic, I think it is easier for a Christian to accept that 'soul got trapped in wrong body' than 'right body wants sex with same-sex person'.
It seems to be quite a 'universal' phenomenon that societies, no matter how conservative, have an easier time accepting a sex-change than accepting homosexuality - and beyond Christianity. It is no coincidence that Iran will punish homosexuality by death but will give homosexuals the 'way out' of a sex change.

I had very short hair, and my husband has long hair. This was most perturbing to one small girl. Must be why my son wore a blue sparkly dress when he was two.

Haha, yeah, some kids are really adamant advocates of total gender conformity. It is quite astonishing.

I do remember at one holiday location on a playground a German kid being adamant that my son‘s (bearded) dad couldn‘t have long hair because he was a man, all while long haired bearded dad was playing along with my son.

Hah, I had much the same experience in a shop once. I had very short hair, and my husband has long hair. This was most perturbing to one small girl.
Must be why my son wore a blue sparkly dress when he was two.

Agreed Floral, here in North America the mainstream churches including the Anglican Church are completely in thrall to transgender ideology. They have to be seen as the most accepting, most welcoming, most inclusive. There is no critical thought, and if someone did have a critical thought they wouldn't voice it too loudly.

Interestingly attitudes are a bit more divided on same sex marriage- this is entirely because the indigenous branch of the church has conservative attitudes on the issue, and blocked allowing the church to perform same sex marriages last year. (Which presents an interesting dilemma for a woke church whose other major cause is reconciliation with indigenous people!) However on the trans issue, it's TWAW across the board.

I'm shocked that any Christian would see transgender ideology as anything other than against God. It goes completely against Church teaching. Jesus Himself said if anyone harms a child,better for that person had they never been born.

The Catholic Church I believe put out an encyclical last year denouncing it...I think it is called Male and Female He Created Them.

How can a Christian argue ‘wrong body’? Surely god doesn’t make booboos?

I promise I'm not making up the trans support among left wing, mainstream Christians. And yes, obviously, I'm having conversations with leftie Christians who have misgivings, but they always want to stay private about it, and I know at least four or five influential progressive Christians personally who are absolutely fired up vocally about this, and I follow LGBTQ+ groups full of UK Christians of the same mindset. As mentioned,the intentions are well meant, and the hook up with LGB rights means people are petrified to do anything except completely, unequivocally support trans everything, lest they be seen as just like all those nasty traditional conservatives.

I've had conversations with Christian TMs where they have been having a go at Gay men for not being willing to consider relationships with them just because they are not physically male, trying to explain how jaw dropping homophobic this is, to no avail. I've tried to explain, in conversations about banning conversion therapy, that telling a woman whose husband has transitioned that she should stay and just be fine with being a 'lesbian' is exactly the same coercive, manipulative abuse, to no avail. In my experience, leftie Christians are possibly the most hardened of all the members of the broader cult mindset.

I did not confuse sex and gender.
I specifically referred to 2-3 year old kids thinking they might lose or grow a penis when they grow up. A developmental phase where kids think their sex is not fixed is described in scientific literature at that age.

And this phase is followed by a phase where kids will not play with X, if it is considered a girl/boy toy, will often insist gender typical hair cuts and clothing (which is clearly gender) and will then again become more relaxed about gender norms (which is, again gender).

So, what exactly is your issue?

thinking that their sex is not fixed at 2-3 years, followed by a phase where they observe gender stereotypes to a ridiculous degree at 4-5, which then relaxes again at about 6. (At least many parents in my circle had a similar experience.)

Please don't confuse sex with gender. Sex is what you are born with. Gender is how society treats you. They aren't the same

What is more, most Christians who are aware of what’s happening are growing increasingly concerned at the erasure of woman and women’s rights.

Really? I don't think any religious group has a great track record in taking women and/or women's equality seriously!

My nephew wanted to be a Pokemon at that age. Good thing there isn't surgery offered for that, eh?

Idk. I am obviously against transitioning and for gender bending as the way less harmful Route in the long run. That said, I can imagine that in a conservative environment it may be harder for a pre-pubescent kid to live as a gender bender than to transition. I can imagine this pressure can become overwhelming even for skeptical parents. Particularly with the ‚experts‘ pushing the same way.

Why does wanting to play with dolls and other 'girlie' things make you a girl? I wanted to play with Meccano and climb trees - but I was still very much still a girl. My great-nephew wants to wear pink and paint his nails - but he's still very much a boy.

Having spent most of my life trying to break down gender stereotypes, this sort of story really makes me sad and angry. Are we going backwards? Will children only have to look forward to the choice of being a downtrodden 50s housewife or a macho muscle man? Where's the freedom in that?

The C of E's trans bandwagon-jumping is disappointing. It is another example of an organisation that got it wrong on issues of sexuality and is terrified of repeating past mistakes. It opted to jump towards harming women without really thinking about it.

I think this is the whole reason for transgenderism’s stunning sudden conquest of so much of the world. As simple as that. Trying not to repeat an embarrassing mistake, governments etc dived headfirst into a new one.