“57% of women support self ID”

The smart and strategic of the trans activists must be really pissed off when they think about how widening the trans umbrella and bringing in the narcissists, misogynists, and fetishists has tarnished their "campaign for trans rights", and has broken the first rule of trans activist club: Keep as much of the campaigning as possible invisible to the public.

I wonder if this was the real reason Ruth Hunt left Stonewall so suddenly?

Rewinding to a few years back, it was pretty straightforward for the trans activists. They could propose just about anything and it would get uncritical and automatic acceptance with no push-back that mattered. There were critical voices but these were mostly lost in the noise.

The smart and strategic of the trans activists must be really pissed off when they think about how widening the trans umbrella and bringing in the narcissists, misogynists, and fetishists has tarnished their "campaign for trans rights", and has broken the first rule of trans activist club: Keep as much of the campaigning as possible invisible to the public.

Well I support people being able to 'self ID' their 'gender'. Why on earth not.

But where I differ from PN, is I do not believe thinking people should be able to break free of stereotypes means men should have womens rights. Nor that gender has any bearing whatsoever on sex based rights.

Also yeah, asking the question about single sex spaces and such, the majority are against doing away with them. When TRA types mean basically ending sex segregation when they say 'self ID', they mean something totally different to what most think it means.

Annoys me how even TRAs agree gender and sex are different things. Yet they keep attempting to fudge the two purposely. 'Yes, sex and gender are not the same thing, so of course self ID of gender means access to single sex spaces of the opposite sex'

Ask the real question.

Get the real answers.

Even if the people answering understood the implications of self id, even if the poll had posed the question in a way that wasn't misleading, and even if there weren't other polls giving very different results - 43% of women being against self id or unsure is still a hell of a lot more than the entire number of transgender people in Britain, isn't it?

The problem with allowing men to self-ID as women is that it affects all women, not just the 57% who agree with it. You then have a substantial minority of women and girls who are compelled to share changing room space, toilets, domestic violence refuges etc with male-bodied people regardless of the fact that they don't want to. Is that really something Prick News thinks is desirable? (Obviously yes, but would they want to admit it?)

OP?

Surprised so low given question. Helen Staniland had a survey done with direct questions . It is her pinned tweet.
mobile.twitter.com/helenstaniland?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

I think that considering a) how successful the trans lobby has been in - by it's own gleeful admission - stifling debate and b) how conditioned women are to put everyone else's interests before their own, that it's really quite remarkable that they've only managed 57% agreement to a question that was as wide as my post-lockdown arse.

It will be very interesting to see what happens as the sunlight gets in.

What does born into a gender even mean?

I think people should be able to dress, present and call themselves however they like, but they should use the services appropriate to their biological sex. More money and effort should be put into breaking down stereotypes and reducing male violence.

There are lies, damned lies and Pink News articles

The research by YouGov for PinkNews also revealed that only 18 percent of all voters agree with government plans to let transgender people change their legal gender without a doctor’s approval

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/exclusive-just-13-of-tory-voters-agree-with-governments-proposed-transgender-policy/

Pink News did this survey two years back and did not like the results, ever since they have been massaging the questions to get the results they prefer.

Based on the question about access to female changing rooms, it seems the majority do not actually support self ID. It would be interesting to know what people think about post op trans women being in women’s spaces and whether they see them as women. I personally, have no issue with that, but would like to know what other women in general (outside of mumsnet) think about it.

Yes of course the question is phrased in order to get the most positive response.

that is entirely possible - esp if Prat News was promoting the survey. The trans lobby have a loose grip on numbers - the much touted suicide ideation survey had (I understand) 26 trans respondents (from a thousand or so responses in total), 13 of which reported suicidal thoughts so then Mermaids start quoting that 48% of trans people are suicidal but conveniently forgetting that actually only 13 actual people reported that. Bonkers.

Well I can self id as anything I like.

Doesn't mean anyone has to accept it and doesn't change the facts about who I am in law.

I would 100% agree that someone should be able to do that. It should go without saying, in fact.

I 100% disagree that someone should be able to change their status in law, and make it very much more difficult for women to retain single sex provision, based on that personal sense of identity.

The question's phrasing drives the responses. They know this. It's why they framed the questions as they did.

Here is the question Yougov asked for PinkNews:

Do you think a person should or should not be able to self-identify as a gender different to the one they were born in?

Contrary to the triumphant reporting, I'm concerned that only just over half answered this question with a yes. You'd be hard pressed to find a majority of posters here on FWR answering that with a No.

Removing the gender woo and rephrasing in plain English, this is what the question means:

Do you think a person should or should not be able to identify with the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes of the opposite sex to their own?

Collectively, our answer here tends to be knock yourself out, champ, these stereotypes are bollocks anyway.

Here's what Pink News et al. are pretending it means:

Do you think a person should or should not be able to legally change their sex to the opposite sex (with all the legal consequences that entails), via a self-declaration process?

The answer to that, both here and generally in the public is a resounding NO.

Rather dishonestly, PinkNews et al. are misrepresenting a majority yes to the stereotype question as a majority yes to the legal question.

As MsMarvellous demonstrates so distinctly with the much more clearly defined questions she posted (from a poll done at the same time by the same pollster), the truth is that repeated polling on the legal question shows a majority of the British public are opposed.

If we cannot self-ID as another ethnicity, age, height, etc. then why should it be acceptable to self-ID as the opposite sex? Either they're all incorrect or none are.

I think The Times did a poll recently on this and got approx. 95% against. I agree with posters above - people can identify as whatever they would like but they can't expect their perception of self to override the provisions of the EA 2010.

I am rereading Oliver Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat - it is fascinating what perceptions the human mind can construct that seem utterly real to the subject - that doesn't make them real to anyone else and the genderists seem to be the only group with a mismatch between their perception of themselves and material reality that expect everyone else to agree with them.

Is it possible the 'women' that we're polled included trans women and thus artificially inflated the figure?

I suspect that what this poll actually shows is that 57% of women who haven’t been told all the negative consequences of self-ID are in favour of it.

docs.cdn.yougov.com/ogu5gtx9us/PinkNewsResults_200629_Education_Selfidentity.pdf

I can only find this on yougov. They only asked the one question?

A YouGov poll, shown in this Huff Post article, reported that the majority of women support self ID

Majority of what? What's a woman?

So it seems being a woman counts when useful to provide stats (of the majority of only the women polled, not the entire country)

And yes a rather different story to the stats MsMarvellous provided.