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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should a 'special' group of people be allowed to hide their criminal history?

35 replies

NonnyMouse1337 · 11/07/2020 09:32

As a society, we should be reframing the melodramatic and mindless slogans from the trans privilege lobby into sensible questions worthy of national debate.

I propose some questions:

Should a 'special' group of people be allowed to hide their criminal history?

Is it evidence of prejudice, 'phobia', and discrimination if they are unable to do so?

Is this a human right?

If it's a human right, surely it should apply to all humans?

In 2018, a transwoman declared an intention to bring a judicial review to enable them to delete two crimes they committed 'as a man' because otherwise it would be 'outing' them. I wonder if they managed to go ahead with the judicial review? Be interesting if anyone was able to find out.

Article below.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-offender-seeks-to-wipe-crimes-as-aman-from-record-qfk5w68lb

Trans offender seeks to wipe crimes as a man from record

September 09 2018

A transgender offender is seeking to delete from her record two crimes that could only have been committed by a man.

“I do not wish my gender history to be more widely known and do not wish to disclose my trans status to employers,” the woman, who asked to be identified only as Helen, said. She wishes to launch a judicial review to remove two convictions for “importuning as a man” when she worked at a Soho “clip joint” in the 1970s and 1980s.

A right to removal, if established, could cover rape, another crime that can legally be committed only by a person with a penis.

Trans people with a gender recognition certificate are legally entitled to keep their birth gender secret.

Helen’s barrister, Claire McCann, said disclosure of offences that revealed Helen’s birth gender in criminal record checks was “severe and discriminatory interference with Helen’s right to respect for her private life”.

Christopher Stacey, director of Unlock, a support group that is backing the case and seeking other potential claimants, said the law risked “outing” transgender people.

However, Nicola Williams, of Fair Play for Women, said any change would open up a “huge loophole” whereby sex offenders could transition to “wipe out” their crimes.

● This article was amended on November 8 2018 to make clear that Helen is not currently bringing a judicial review application but wishes to do so.

OP posts:
JellySlice · 11/07/2020 10:02

or have been given a new identity

Really?

JellySlice · 11/07/2020 10:01

But this is not the case to support that. Using this case to wipe historic crimes that are now considered non-crimes, would surely set a precedent that changing your ID entitles you to wipe crimes from your record.

SerenityNowwwww · 11/07/2020 09:59

Unless you are under witness protection or have been given a new identity there’s no way you should be allowed to hide a criminal record.

I suppose there’s an area where, say a young woman (or man) has been convicted of prostitution when they were coerced or threatened into the lifestyle. That’s a whole very different argument.

GracieLane · 11/07/2020 09:58

*More to the point: crimes related solely to homophobia should be removed from everyone's criminal record.
*
Couldn't agree more. Nobody should have a criminal record, a sexual offence no less, for being gay. I think the trans issue is probably secondary here

wellbehavedwomen · 11/07/2020 09:53

Anyone can seek to bring a JR. It doesn't mean they'll be allowed to do so, let alone that they'd succeed in their aims. And those offences would only show up on an enhanced DBS, because they'd be spent on any more basic one.

I can't see this ever succeeding, because the safeguarding principle is why there are special arrangements after transitioning legally to ensure the connection can be made. That's still the case, and given the story is from 2 years ago it seems to have gone nowhere.

More to the point: crimes related solely to homophobia should be removed from everyone's criminal record.

Aesopfable · 11/07/2020 09:52

I thought that if they were 'spent' then you didn't need to disclose them apart from certain 'high risk' jobs? And surely for those roles they must remain.

hampstead1234 · 11/07/2020 09:49

No loopholes should exist for sex offenders, male or female at the time the offences were committed.

GracieLane · 11/07/2020 09:45

Importuning as a man was offering sex to another man it's called "harassment" but that was to due to the homophobia of the time. So his crime might just be coming on to someone (although it's unclear if this was done with an element of what we would now call harassment or not)

NonnyMouse1337 · 11/07/2020 09:37

She wishes to launch a judicial review to remove two convictions for “importuning as a man” when she worked at a Soho “clip joint” in the 1970s and 1980s.

Not sure what "importuning as a man" means... - harassing someone for sex?

What's a "clip joint"?

OP posts:
Kaiserin · 11/07/2020 09:36

It certainly sounds like a massive loophole