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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Irreversible Damage: The transgender craze seducing our daughters - new book

31 replies

stumbledin · 11/07/2020 00:50

Have only skim read a review, and not sure it is saying anything that those on FWR aren't familiar with. Also US based.

But thought I would post as a point of interest thepostmillennial.com/why-are-teenage-girls-afraid-to-be-women-a-new-book-explains-their-flight-from-biological-reality

Apparently Amazon have refused to stock it! twitter.com/abigailshrier?lang=en

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queenofknives · 22/08/2020 10:01

@Purpleice

As a total side note Dr Lisa Marchiano is on a weekly podcast as one of three analysts called ‘This Jungian Life’ it’s a really good listen.
Oh I love that podcast! Never made the connection with the Lisa Marchiano talking about transition. Thanks for the note!
Winesalot · 22/08/2020 09:25

I read this thread this morning about just how tightly the young transgender community narrow their field of scope. Just how even reading something that is real and factual and causes them to question their beliefs is impossible for them to cope with. Let alone if one of their community expresses that it is a point worthy of consideration.

The fear of cancellation by their community is one of the main points that Irreversible Damage brought home to me. And feeling like this is such a mess if mental health practitioner’s hands are tied by the conversion therapy legislation.

twitter.com/hjoycegender/status/1296853754202009601?s=21

ValancyRedfern · 22/08/2020 07:45

Mine is due to arrive on Tuesday! I am trying to be Amazon-free but Waterstones aren't stocking it at all so I ended up getting it on Amazon.

Purpleice · 22/08/2020 00:36

As a total side note Dr Lisa Marchiano is on a weekly podcast as one of three analysts called ‘This Jungian Life’ it’s a really good listen.

nepeta · 21/08/2020 22:50

I read it a few weeks ago. The only new aspect for me in it had to do with the possibility that a very large percentage of the young girls who seek transition in fact have never kissed anyone, never had a date, are virgins and so on, yet many describe their desire to transition from at least partly a sexual angle.

I have seen the latter quite a bit on various online sites. Shier argues that this is because the teens now live online rather than in the real world so they have replaced socialising and dating with online activities. Also, girls who lack friends and social standing are drawn toward transitioning because it opens up a subculture which supports and celebrates them and turns them from outcasts into central players in that subculture.

The author's conservative views appear toward the back of the book , in my opinion.

The flavor of the book is very much that it is being a woman or a Lesbian which is now made so unattractive that girls don't want to go there when it looks like they can simply turn a switch and become boys, but in the last chapter(s) the author goes back to essentially innate thinking about sex roles and how certain occupations are more suited for women while STEM is for men but the former should be equally valued (are not in pay, of course) and so on.

This really goes against the main themes in the book which are very much about the re-emergence of women's roles as largely sexual and the clear rebirth of retrogressive thinking about what a man and a woman might be. Short hair equals men and so on.

VirginiaComet · 21/08/2020 22:27

@VirginiaComet

That doesn't sound right?

It's published by Regenery which is owned by Salem Media Group /Simon and Schuester and I can't find any connection to Waterstones. (I used to work for Waterstones and although it's been a few years I have never been aware of them owning a publishing house...)

Oops this was meant to reply to LeftHandDown I had a look to see who the publisher of Shrier's book was, only to discover that Waterstones bought the publishing company a year or so ago!

I'm genuinely curious Smile

VirginiaComet · 21/08/2020 22:25

That doesn't sound right?

It's published by Regenery which is owned by Salem Media Group /Simon and Schuester and I can't find any connection to Waterstones. (I used to work for Waterstones and although it's been a few years I have never been aware of them owning a publishing house...)

OvaHere · 21/08/2020 20:25

It is odd. Perhaps it's a distribution/printing issue? Maybe they got more orders from outside the US than anticipated?

AnneShirleyBlythe · 21/08/2020 20:20

Same here Ovahere ! Very odd! My mum apso had the same email. Wonder what's going on at Amazon?

OvaHere · 21/08/2020 19:03

Having received an email in the last couple of days to say this was delayed again until November I've just had a dispatch notice to say it's arriving tomorrow.

Watch this space!

Winesalot · 21/08/2020 10:39

I read it and it was good. Much of what is discussed about stats, studies and treatments have been discussed on these boards. However it was good to bring them all together with case studies.

And I learned so much more a out the US approach and perhaps why it has progressed and why many believe the UK is a hive of vipers.

But it also reinforced why there are so many young females who persist in their transition even when they have doubts. Because they may have alienated their family and the only community left will police their contact outside the community and will allow no deviation from the ideology. I had heard some of the detransitioners stories but reading this really brought it home.

FeedTheSparrows · 21/08/2020 10:10

You can also get it through Blackwells: blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Irreversible-Damage-by-Abigail-Shrier-author/9781684510313

(My go to as I don't shop with Amazon anymore).

moptophairshop · 21/08/2020 09:28

@Winesalot

I had one delivered from the book depository last month if that is helpful.
Thanks Winesalot I'll have a look there. I'll also have a look at your suggestion rogdmum. Interesting to hear the excuse Waterstones gave you LeftHandDown! I watched the author's interview with Joe Rogan and thought she came across very well. Looking forward to reading the book.
Kettlingur · 21/08/2020 09:19

This! This is brilliant. About "transing" women posthumously (Joan of Arc, Sally Ride etc)

“The more incredible a woman is, the more barriers she busts through, the more “gender nonconforming” she is deemed to be. In this perverse schema, by definition, the more amazing a woman is, the less she counts as a woman.”

NecessaryScene1 · 21/08/2020 09:14

Nearly 2 hour discussion with Abigail Shrier, its author:

2,165,746 views on YouTube - this is getting a lot more attention these days.

giletrouge · 21/08/2020 08:44

Very interesting to look at the slew of one star reviews on Amazon, all of which have a string of comments after them. Another forum in which the arguments are being conducted. Looks like a fab, brave book - hurrah!

Kettlingur · 21/08/2020 08:31

I'm only on page 130 and it is very interesting and fascinating, but what I find (so far!) curiously missing is the effect of the male gaze. There's plenty about how young girls view their bodies and the bodies of others; how social media influences their idea of what it is to be a woman and how they judge each other's looks, but there's so far nothing about how the male view of women has shifted due to the pornification of culture.

Of course there might be a chapter later and I'll come back and eat my words.

AvocadoBathroom · 21/08/2020 03:20

Audio book should definitely be available as I have it. It's a really good book, she's really kind and protective, the stories are heartbreaking. I'm listening to it with my daughter. We may have dodged a bullet thanks to JKR and this author.

LeftHandDown · 20/08/2020 23:48

@moptophairshop

I had this on pre-order (Amazon) and today got a message saying it won't be delivered until October/November. Can't find it listed on Waterstones either. Has anyone successfully ordered a print copy in the UK? Have tried my local bookshop online but their site is down.
I tried to order the book from my local Waterstones, the shop assistant said the book wasn't listed for release, but she would check/request order. Went back a few weeks later and then same person said Waterstones weren't selling it as they don't stock books by that publisher! As that sounded odd, I had a look to see who the publisher of Shrier's book was, only to discover that Waterstones bought the publishing company a year or so ago!
Suffrajester · 20/08/2020 23:36

@Beerincomechampagnetastes

This caught my eye.

The final word to Dr. Lisa Marchiano: “I think the last holdouts in all of this are going to be the parents who transitioned their children. They’ll never be able to admit that maybe they did something wrong.” Don’t be them.

Mermaids anyone?

They remind me of Jerrod Scepter's parents - strict Jehovah's Witnesses who let their son refuse a blood transfusion and die. They got deeper into the religion after his death and the governing body occasionally films them for JW Broadcasting videos and Watchtower interviews and the like, showing how loyal they were to the organisation that they sacrificed their child. They have to believe that they did the right thing and their son will be resurrected in the paradise earth after Armageddon, because the alternative - that they were manipulated and needlessly let their son die because eight blokes in America suddenly decided in the 1940s that the Bible didn't support certain medical procedures that weren't invented yet even though it'd violate the principle of preserving life above all other laws - is too awful to face. It's no wonder they cling to the belief, because the cost they've sunk into it is just so enormous. When you've done something like that to your child, you have to keep believing you did the right thing or face what you did. Though to be fair to these parents, there are a lot of lobby groups that manipulated them and they can't shoulder all of the blame. Organisations that blackmailed them with irresponsible and inaccurate claims that their children would definitely commit suicide otherwise, the claims that all treatments are reversible, sexists, homophobes and ableists who told them that a gender nonconforming, gay or autistic kid was somehow wrong or broken, all of them. I hope the parents can come to terms with it and they and their children can reconcile. Though it's a bloody tough thing to face.
PopperUppleton · 20/08/2020 23:35

Nice to save £66.50 on a book!

rogdmum · 20/08/2020 22:32

Another excellent book is “Inventing Transgender Children and Young People” which is now available as a Kindle edition for £9.99:

amazon.co.uk/Inventing-Transgender-Children-Young-People-ebook/dp/B08DY1SPDS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OADORI8BXA54&keywords=inventing+transgender+children+and+young+people&qid=1597959114&sprefix=Inventing+tran%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-1]]

Winesalot · 20/08/2020 22:20

I had one delivered from the book depository last month if that is helpful.

moptophairshop · 20/08/2020 17:39

I had this on pre-order (Amazon) and today got a message saying it won't be delivered until October/November. Can't find it listed on Waterstones either. Has anyone successfully ordered a print copy in the UK? Have tried my local bookshop online but their site is down.

WatchoutfortheROUS · 11/07/2020 09:43

I'm going to buy it on principle!

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