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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

coming out as non-binary changed my sex life for the better: I don't understand?!

36 replies

fuckinghellapeacock · 10/07/2020 22:59

I really don't understand the 'non-binary" aspect of this article. Can anyone shed any light?

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/sefleenor/coming-out-as-nonbinary-changed-my-sex-life-for-the-better?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BuzzFeed%20News%20-%20July%2010%2C%202020&utm_term=News%20confirmed%20list

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FloralBunting · 11/07/2020 13:09

Excellent post, Broomfondle

PotholeParadise · 11/07/2020 13:07

Or to simplify it in tumblr terms, where is the desire to 'widen the bandwidth of womanhood' for natal women?

Broomfondle · 11/07/2020 11:22

Imagine if the first wave feminists had done that. Said "we want to vote and work and wear trousers and have short hair - because we're actually not women! You just keep oppressing those actual women who like being treated like chattel

I always think this. And imagine if gays and lesbians had argued that sex was a spectrum and not a binary and men could have vaginas and women could have penises so actually they were heterosexual and if you were only 'opposite genital attracted' you couldn't use the term heterosexual and you were oppressing them. How far would they have got?
I mean seriously...where's the - well, pride?! To say I am what I am and that deserves respect in itself, not I deserve respect because I'm not actually what I am. Drives me potty.
Argue for acceptance of yourself and humane treatment instead of opting out and throwing others to the wolves (non-binary) or trying to piggy back on another sex class (TRAs).

PotholeParadise · 11/07/2020 11:18

I'm a few years too old to identify as non-binary, but I seem to share common experiences with a lot of slightly younger people who do, so I am going to make careful I -statements instead of you-statements

If I identified as non-binary, (it would mean that I had realised that the expectations on women felt horribly oppressive and not like something the real me could ever be and the last time I felt happy with my body and not filled with disgust when I saw it was pre-puberty.

If I still had the low self-esteem typical of a child raised with female socialisation, I might conclude the problem was me and I just wasn't a proper woman, instead of realising that the expectations placed on women were unreasonable.

Fortunately, I got hold of Germaine Greer and bell hooks books in my teens instead and learnt the words 'that's not fair' instead.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 11/07/2020 11:05

That's so sad. I'm happy the writer is happier but it's so clear that her problems were down to horribly sexist and unrealistic expectations of what it means to be a woman.
And instead of opting out of those expectations, she's trying to opt out of being a woman.

TorkTorkBam · 11/07/2020 10:39

Non-binary means sexist feminist?

DidoLamenting · 11/07/2020 10:36

I gave up too. I'm still none the wiser as to what "non-binary" means and how one transitions to being non-binary.

fuckinghellapeacock · 11/07/2020 10:24

a new way to describe an old experience?

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TorkTorkBam · 11/07/2020 10:05

"Isn't that just year" eh? Apparently I am on glue.

Doesn't every generation invent the same personal revolutions and like to think they are revelatory?

Or maybe the current lot are finding it harder than previous generations to realise if you'd asked your mum, your gran, your aunties, they'd have told you about when they snapped too.

TorkTorkBam · 11/07/2020 09:59

Bisexual woman with a history of CSA marries a straight man. Both have had many sexual partners in the past. This heterosexual couple live by sexist stereotypes. They both think of sex as a performance.

One day the woman, in the middle of a yet another diet, decides that sexist stereotypes and performative sex are unsatisfying and even oppressive.

The wife puts her foot down and refuses to play the game any more. No more sexy submissive little woman. She stops dressing in sexy clothes. She stops dieting. She won't let her husband dominate her in bed (he still tried though at first).

She was worried that if she stopped playing the sexy submissive little woman then her husband would dump her. She asked him when drunk then later she snapped and stopped the SSLW act.

Turns out he is fine with her not putting on that act. Turns out her husband likes her for her personality not her performances. He doesn't mind her putting on weight and getting big boobs and a big arse, although they trouble her. He drops some of the macho crap he felt he had to perform while she was a SSLW. Their marriage and sex life improves. They started having threesomes and she likes it.

For reasons of 2020 being batshit, she has taken a fairly normal experience and made it speshul by using trans words to describe a tale as old as time:

Wife snaps, screams Fuck The Patriarchy, burns her bra, refuses to stuff another mushroom, refuses to let sex be all about him, refuses to starve herself to be stick thin, bins the porno clothes, says no more submissive little missy I am standing up for myself. Husband is a bit shocked then goes along with it because actually he's nice. Their life improves after some initial turmoil.

Isn't that just year

NonnyMouse1337 · 11/07/2020 09:44

What am I missing about the need for non-binary?

Not much. It's complete bullshit and a great way for perfectly normal and ordinary (usually heterosexual) people to claim an 'oppressed' identity.
Apparently non-binary identities are covered by hate crime laws, at least in Scotland. I wonder what a non-binary hate crime looks like....
Women aren't protected from hate crimes though, because sex (which is a protected characteristic) isn't included in the list.

khawk89 · 11/07/2020 09:39

Non-binary people jumped a sinking ship taking the only functioning lifeboat.
I feel gender stereotypes are the problem. Does anyone know a transwoman that isn't girly, dressed in dresses and wearing makeup? - a large proportion of women don't do these things. I'd honestly like to talk to a person like that. I also feel that what males view women as being, and what bio women view women as being are two different things.

monkeyonthetable · 11/07/2020 09:37

I read that article and had no idea what she was on about, so I looked up what being non-binary is and the explanation page here is absolutely opaque. I am clueless as to what they mean. No concrete examples are given about any of what they are talking about.

If they mean: I don't want to conform to a stereotype of what it means to be a woman or a man, then...don't. That's fine.

Isn't it creating a healthier society to say, 'I am a man. I like flower arranging and baking cakes and tying bows round kittens. I'm a man,' or 'I'm a woman. I like motor racing and weightlifting and footie on a Saturday. I'm a woman,' than to think if you don't fit a really gross narrow stereotype you have to cancel your natural born gender? Why constantly narrow what it is to be a woman or a man into Ken and Barbie status? I genuinely don't get it. What am I missing about the need for non-binary?

velourvoyageur · 11/07/2020 09:26

The arrogance of thinking that telling someone that you want to be seen as ‘non-binary’ is comparable to coming out. Can’t help thinking that if many of these alphabet+ types were assigned work in a food bank for a month they’d be much more pleasant as people. Get them thinking about what actual concrete problems look like.

Oxyiz · 11/07/2020 09:14

It's actually worth a read, it genuinely made me laugh - with that deadly serious earnest tone on such a ridiculous topic, it could easily have been written for the Onion. Thanks for sharing OP.

BaronessSlighterThanThou · 11/07/2020 09:05

Crumbs!

Language!

NonnyMouse1337 · 11/07/2020 09:02

I'm glad others have read the article so that I don't have to. It sounds awfully stupid and self obsessed.

How do people like this get to adulthood and not realise their experiences are near universal? There is absolutely nothing special about them at all.

Want to try things differently in your sex life with your partner? Talk to them about it. It's amazing what honesty and respectful dialogue from both sides can achieve. No made up label required so you can 'come out'. Sounds like a heterosexual woman who is desperate for a special 'coming out' story like 'those gay people'. 🙄

Soontobe60 · 11/07/2020 08:59

Bloody hell, what a load of nonsense. It's straight out of the pages of a modern day Mills and Boon novel. Talk about over performing!

rosy71 · 11/07/2020 08:50

That was a very boring & self obsessed article. Do people really behave & think like that all the time?

ThousandsAreSailing · 11/07/2020 08:47

I couldn't get to the end. It was just much of the same.
It reminds me of an article I read by a TM. The TM was raped and horrified because only women should be raped😩
They both spectacularly miss the point and seem almost happy that other women are treated badly once they have opted out of womanhood. If we just accept that there should be no expectations of what being a man or a woman should be everyone would be happier
But how could the non-binaries or trans stay special Hmm

TornadoOfSouls · 11/07/2020 08:46

The whole thing comes across as immature, performative and self-obsessed, and boring.

This is why I will never not mock the concept of non binary. Because it absolutely positions women as walking sex dolls for men.

FloralBunting hits the nail on the head as usual.

SydneyCarton · 11/07/2020 08:39

Why is the partner in these sort of narratives always so willing to go along with the self indulgent navel gazing? I’d have loved it if J had just said “Ok, love, fine by me, whatever makes you feel comfortable. Shall I put the kettle on?” instead of all the weeping and holding each other and blah blah 😕

Also, she asked him “Would you divorce me if I transitioned?”, so he’s not her partner, he’s actually her husband. How boringly heteronormative Hmm

AsTreesWalking · 11/07/2020 08:34

So, this is a revelatory tale of how honest and loving communication improves a couple's sex life. Wow.

Deliriumoftheendless · 11/07/2020 07:48

@FloralBunting

This is why I will never not mock the concept of non binary. Because it absolutely positions women as walking sex dolls for men.
And instead of helping women who have suffered trauma or have serious body issues come to terms with their female bodies it creates a “solution” that at its most extreme advocates for double mastectomies in YOUNG women, who may not yet fully understand themselves as people (let alone as women).

If a young woman’s coping mechanism is to have short hair and wear a sports bra and insist she is called “they” then ok. I’d still like anyone in that situation to be able to reconcile themselves with their sex but if it helps it helps. But too many NB women don’t just reject the term woman, but the physical body, and go down a medicalised route. And hating your body is so so so common in young (and older) women, why aren’t these women being told “it’s normal to feel like that. You’re not alone. Those older women you are being told to despise actually have felt/feel it too”?

Oh, yeah, because they might listen to us.

fuckinghellapeacock · 11/07/2020 07:38

Agreed. What utter self obsessed drivel.

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