Sports Illustrated first transgender swimsuit model

The comments on that thread are vile.
The fraud reaction is very strong and tangibly violent.
I find myself wondering how much of this is generated by old fashioned biology. The physical signals we (as humans) find 'sexy' are markers of fecundity. A transwoman can ape all these markers and look amazing, yet as soon as a male clicks that this person is not actually female then any prospect of reproduction is out. Whilst the majority of sex is not about making babies, it's that basic instinct behind the behaviours.

What's interesting to me, is that the more "male" physical traits of this (gorgeous) model, such as the firm jaw line, the broader shoulders, the long hands... Are all physical traits I share. And I'm 100% female. But my natural body type never really fitted stereotypical gender boxes (for instance, I'm "hour glass shaped" if you look at shoulders and hips, or perhaps even top heavy, but my boobs are "too small" compared to my bum). And for a long time this was a source of discomfort.

It's rather bizarre, because stunningly attractive people are often subtly androgynous (think Angelina Jolie/Brad Pitt), yet androgynous-phobia is also a thing? (in my experience. Or maybe it's just females can never be feminine enough, whatever they do or are: always too thin or too fat somewhere)

Anyhow, I'm not sure how I feel about seeing that somewhat-differently-proportioned body-type-of-mine becoming (perhaps) fashionable. My younger self would have been mighty confused (especially by the trans aspect!). But nowadays I'd rather just not be on the flesh market ("thankfully" age has added enough extra pounds and wrinkles it's no longer much of a concern )

I suspect the anime avatar bunch also hate Valentina though too

interesting. what makes you think that?

The 1980's super high leg swimsuit to try to give the illusion of a feminine waistline.

The straight men kicking off would've looked at photo and their brain has read 'women' and 'sex'.
Upon realising the beautiful Valentina is in fact male, the self disgust at finding another male sexually attractive kicks in (like pp said, they react to feeling duped).
They then attack the person who 'duped' them.

Because it's male violence against a male, the shouty death rape threat lot will keep quiet because they only hate women and are afraid of the alpha males who they can't bully into submission.

Men's reactions to trans women is why they refuse to acknowledge them as part of the male category and happily push them into ours. The very thought that other adult males choose to present as women threatens their masculinity. They need them to be 'other'

I suspect the anime avatar bunch also hate Valentina though too.

Come on ladies - don't you realise that it's our fault that these men are making such horrible comments about Valentina. They have all obviously been reading Mumsnet for the last couple of years and that is why they have decided that Valentina doesn't make the cut for their wank bank. If only we had been kinder on here, if only we all went over to that Twitter feed and told these men that transwomen are women, they would all be talking about what womanly, gorgeous wank fodder Valentina is and all would be well.

It’s much easier to look like the Sports Illustrated feminine ideal when you’re that thin. Will someone just please give Valentina a sandwich or something?

I have to be honest, I wouldn't have known that model was trans if it hadn't been pointed out

They are exceptionally beautiful, whether it’s surgery or not can’t say.

But they are equally beautiful in the video of them also on the mags timeline. However they are also equally obviously male.

and that cover image from the female eunuch, of a stereotypically beautiful feminine body with handles attached has never looked so true has it?

femininity is an act folks! you heard it here first

Hahahaha!

So they’ve decided to take the fight to the straight men?

Good luck with that one!

see I wouldn't class the comments under that tweet as transpobia

i'd say they're homophobia

it's straight dudes worried that someone's going to make them have sex with another man, or 'straight' dudes making a big deal about how they definitely don't want to and have never thought about having sex with another man

Yes aesop, I do believe that is how they perceive it.

I don't think it is because someone is not conforming to the masculine box. I think it is because they perceive a fraud has been committed against them, that someone is trying to trick them into believing that this model is a woman.

The comments are horrific. We shouldn't be applauding or allying with misogyny.

Who is allying with misogyny here? If they are then yes, call them out. But most of us are commenting about the hypocrisy of the fact men are not being abused for their horrid comments.

The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue is horrible, outdated, sexist bullshit. Especially when women are still desperately trying to be taken seriously in sport. If transwomen want to be featured then they're more than welcome as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps it will help to divorce this kind of skinny, sexualised aesthetic from representing the "ideal female" and instead represent "ideal femininity".

And I agree with PP that the comments are vile. It's incredible to see just how enraged men can become when confronted with someone that does not conform to the "masculine" box.

Author Gillian Philip has a pinned tweet of the abuse she received and it is of course far worse than anything posted under vomiting gifs...

Seriously? Men get off so lightly. Only men that stand with women seem to be getting aggressive you're trans phobic comments. And yet women are getting called transphobic for telling an american trans woman that to say suck my dick to women in the UK is highly offensive and they should respect other cultures than their own. Although admittedly that conversation did turn into - UK is not the world, we hate all UK people and they're despicable for their colony past. So maybe they weren't the most balanced of people.

I actually do have a problem with using transwomen models who retain male proportions and fat distribution and muscle definition for clothing meant for women to wear if that look then becomes unattainable for an average sized woman. Better to continue to pressure clothing retailers to use a wide range of body types obviously.

of course, SI have been more about objectifying women than anything else so obviously not the same. And frankly, if being objectified in that way is what transwomen want then they are very welcome. Is this the ultimate test for validation then?

I agree though that I really had to look because the proportions seemed out some how and the jaw and the hint of the Adam’s apple. It could well be that underarm shape. It could well be the pose makes my mind think the proportions are out of kilter too. However, if this wasn’t SI this wouldn’t be a discussion whether they ‘pass’ as a female or not. Ie. If it was Vogue it would be about the fashion and how they captured the look. But SI is all about male sexual interest isn’t it.

No denying that they are beautiful as they are though. If there has been no surgery then I hope that they don’t feel the need to do so in the future either.

I had three immediate thoughts in reaction to that piece-

That men think models are wank fodder, so get upset when they are not what they at first appear.

That models are rare women- their features are not common in women. Height, limb length etc

That the look is about the clothes and the pose as much as the body. So a slender male with a high cut swimsuit and thrust out hip looks like a sexy female, despite not being female.

fantasy woman is not in fact a woman.

The model looks beautiful.

The comments are horrific. We shouldn't be applauding or allying with misogyny.

That is so clearly a male body and if a female had those same measurements she would never have been booked for that shoot.

It does sadden me that yet again a paying job that could’ve gone to a woman has gone to a man, it might not be everyone’s ideal job but there are plenty of models who would love to be in Sports Illustrated to up their profiles and get more paid work.

I find the comments on twitter about her looking good/passing well etc so heterosexual men shouldn't be reacting differently interesting.
If we take the premise that it's a wank mag rather than high fashion those comments imply that men just wank off to the outer shell. I mean I'm a heterosexual woman so not an expert in what the male brain does when it's wanking but surely it's not just 'oh they look so good on the outside I'm going to cum', surely it ranges into having a sexual relation with them and the fantasy of that. And that involves imagining interacting with the physical body and the genitals and all the bits you can't see under the swimsuit.
When did whether someone turns you on or what you're attracted to become so friggin shallow? We know the feminine ideal is bullshit and counts for a lot of initial attraction/perception of value by het men, but it's heterosexuality not heterogenderality or heteropassingality.
Sex goddammit! Being a certain sex and having a certain type of sex is important to humans!!!! Stop trying to tell people who they should be sexually attracted to because of markers that don't necessarily have anything to do with sex!!!

The difference in the reactions to comments from men on that thread to the awful abuse women have experienced for defending their own rights is extraordinary. A well-reasoned essay from JKR making clear that she would defend trans rights but is concerned about safeguarding and women's rights leads to awful abuse and threats. Men making vomiting emojis and posting "that's a dude" memes ? @@@@@ (that's a tumbleweed, btw)