Showing that feminists don't all hate heterosexual male sexuality

A lot of women might think 'silly survey' and not vote. And of the remaining self-selecting sample, chances are most wouldn't really give high weighting to the type of car into their choice of a partner. 'Babe magnets' (urgh) are only of any relevance if you're interested in attracting 'babes', I suppose.

Most real women put greater weight on factors like reliability, practicality and low emissions, IME. For cars too...

I think OP has a point. I am prepared to represent all non men hating feminists and show straight men we don’t hate them by having sex with (some) of them - my humble sacrifice will start with Jason Momoa, Antonio Banderas, Henry Cavill and then finish with The Rock ( I know, I know )
I don’t even care if they are wearing crocs

where US women voted on what vehicle was most attractive fit a man to drive. Pick up truck (ultimate epitomy of machismo) was first by a fair margin

See, I drive a pick-up truck (that’s ute in Ausspeak), so problem solved. I can’t blame a woman for truck envy, I myself might think about putting out for a Dodge Ram as big as my house.

But in the long run, owning and driving your own truck is much more, well, satisfying.

PS. And then ten years down the line, when not quite so slim and conventionally attractive, complain that their former trophy partners are 'shallow' fatter

That's very true Circle. Much better articulated than I would have made it.

Some of the men I know who complain that women are only interested in Alpha males are actually not talking about all women. They only see certain women as potential mates and often completely overlook those women who they see as less attractive.

NewName I haven't seen the survey you refer too, and don't doubt it exists. Indeed, I have even thought, 'he's a bit of allright' about a gym bunny Alpha Male type before now. However, now I am in my 60th year (and to be fair probably 15 yrs before that) wouldn't want a relationship with one, as I have the t shirt. As I have said, in my personal experience, not scientific at all, of many years working in a male dominated profession, it's the ones that actually seem to like women, have time for them, don't mansplain, and don't just want to shag them that have the most sucess. Even if, using unpleasant judginess of aesthetic appraisal they have fallen out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Obviously this would be entirely different for a woman, but that's a whole other Fred.

I think many people think of toxic masculinity as being the same as toxic behaviour, which I think isn't necessarily the case (although the former could easily lead to the latter).

I wonder if it can be hard to distinguish in individual cases sometimes. So, a guy comes across as confident, motivated, non-lazy, successful, physically fit, etc. All things which would be seen as positive by most people. But perhaps his father drilled into him from an early age that 'men can't be girly', 'no women wants a wimp for a boyfriend', etc. Maybe his older brothers took the piss out of him for being weedy and he became obsessed with attaining the 'ideal male body', or becoming physically big and 'tough' or successful so that nobody picked on him anymore.

I think there are a lot of guys out there with warped views as to 'what makes a man', and lots of men who have 'something to prove' but are too defensive/self conscious to let it show as men aren't supposed to show weakness. The type of men who seem like the ideal partner but then suddenly show this other side, perhaps when the relationship is tested and they start to care less about how the other person views them.

For instance, I recently read a survey where US women voted on what vehicle was most attractive fit a man to drive.

Bit of a loaded question! Most women I imagine would roll their eyes at that. Then there's how the answers are framed. Poorly I'm assuming. And then there's how that actually translates into the world. I snogged DH well before I knew what he drove! And what he drove was a Honda.

I'm willing to bet one of the most popular pictures of Tom Hardy on the internet is the one with the dog. Caring, sweet, loving and hot. Not just toxic masculinity.

Apologies if it looked like I was trying to be goady. One thing I struggle on with my fairly basic understanding of feminist theory is the diverse nature of it. Of course, one wouldn't expect all feminists to agree, and some strands of feminism (e.g. liberal vs radical) seem to be almost opposites of each other in regard to some areas.

But what I frequently find confusing is that 'the feminist viewpoint' is sometimes used to describe a specific view that is separate from the mainstream view held by many women, whilst other times it's almost implied that feminism is representing women as a unified class.

I've never even heard of Tom Hardy.

Feminists don't waste much time on surveys of 'which car do hot men drive'.

What a weird survey.

Tom Hardy is well fit tho, tbf.

The reasons given for the pick up truck thing was that it showed that a man was 'practical' and also that he wasn't tight with money as he chose to drive a vehicle that was expensive to run.

It it you Midnight Misogynist in a new sock?

If you're asking if I'm a troll the answer's no. Surely you see at least some truth in what I'm saying. For instance, I recently read a survey where US women voted on what vehicle was most attractive fit a man to drive. Pick up truck (ultimate epitomy of machismo) was first by a fair margin, followed by sports cars. Not trying to be 'that guy'. I agree with a lot of the views on here, especially on the gc side of things, but I struggle with toxic masculinity as it seems that in the real world women's reaction to it is often different.

We're clearly soldiers in petticoats
And dauntless crusaders for woman's votes
Though we adore men individually
We agree that as a group they're rather stupid

I hope you'll stick around, IronPyrites, as it seems you've discovered the feedback and cyber-friendships on the Mumsnet feminism forum are among the very best to be found on the internet.

Smelly shoes - I can help. Take your feet out first. Put in a plastic bag and put them in the freezer and freeze for a couple of days. Kills the smelly fungi. Works also for books which have got damp and smelly.

Therapy, OP.

I don't say that flippantly.

If that's not accessible, try a podcast I really like, called This Jungian Life. Helps with perspective. Is very affirming of our common human experiences and struggles.

Okay... But you do realise this is not our circus 🤹‍♂️ and not our 🙊 monkeys? Because I am hearing the suggestion that the circus belongs to women. And that makes me both sad and

I think "fearing" or as you put it "hating" male sexuality is a good thing because as women, we have plenty to fear when it comes to men. We live in a world where at any moment a member of the opposite sex could snap and rape/kill women and children. Yes, it doesn't apply to all men but it's still a possibility that we have to consider because when anything does happen to us we get blamed for it because men "can't control themselves" and they keep saying this. Take a look at Reddit and their rape subs and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I grew up watching made for TV movies. The movies I watched were based on true stories. They were usually about how a man can seem so normal and even be very handsome, but he would turn out to be a rapist/domestic abuser or a serial killer. Basically the premise of those movies was "you never know what goes on behind closed doors". I watched one recently called "The Stranger Beside Me" which was made in 1995. A very chilling film.

Disney movies try to portray men as Prince Charming who wants to save the woman he's in love with. That's not realistic. The low budget TV movies have way more realism in them than a Hollywood's blockbuster could ever dream of.