James O’Brien

I don’t really know who this guy is, but from his tweet in the OP, he’s been asked what a woman is and his reply starts off that he’s ‘incredibly confused’.
Yes OK it’s good he believes in Keep Your Penis out of the Ladies. But that should be the basic assumption for any man.
No he isn’t bloody confused about what a woman is though. Literally nobody is confused. Some people might be too scared, intimidated, self-interested or careerist to say so openly, but everyone, including very young children and animals, knows what a man or woman is, for fucks’ sake.

Do these men really expect women to sympathetically nod along and say ‘mmm yes how confusing and difficult for you’ whilst it’s women are being silenced, threatened professionally, punched to the ground (with no irony whatsoever) at Speakers’ Corner (Maria Maclachlan), given rape or death threats (most GC women on Twitter), their kids being wished a horrible death (Posie Parker) and whatever other creepy as fuck rubbish these men’s sexual entitlement activists can come up with?

Honourable exception that proves this rule being Glinner

I don't think it would be that expensive for new buildings to always plan for women's toilets, men's toilets and an additional unisex, and it would be very convenient for fathers taking daughters to the toilet.

No. And if it was the law, they'd simply have to find the money from somewhere.

I think the killer is though that the third set of toilets is largely for fapping in.

Indeed. If you'd asked me in 2001 what I thought the future of toilets was in 2020, in regards to trans* people, I would have said the addition of separate unisex toilets to existing facilities. In fact, I'm sure I did say.

I don't think it would be that expensive for new buildings to always plan for women's toilets, men's toilets and an additional unisex, and it would be very convenient for fathers taking daughters to the toilet.

Haha Cillidascope, we should recommend safe spaces for humorless D&I paranoia victims where adults can pop in and suggest they have a look at a budget spreadsheet, with copious tissues for the stress of having to budget their own life.

I feel like alongside sex education classes (with photos of sti-ridden genitals) and "don't do drugs" classes (with photos of collapsed noses), schools should also have classes on the dangers of spending too much time on social media, and the photos should just be screenshots of Owen Jones and his hourly spats and sermons on Twitter. 'See, this is what happens when you spend 8 hours a day on Twitter, kids. You'll completely lose your sense of humour, find yourself starting a fight with your own shadow, and the only people willing to be mates with you will be the likes of Ash Sarkar. Just say no.'

I've just arrived at mumsnet via Twitter so never get to see little Owen's misogyny, he blocked me years ago for saying that I was sick of right on men like him talking over and for working class women like me because he hasn't a clue. I see he still hasn't a clue about women, working class or not. What a take womens toilets are too expensive. Last weekend their was a cllr expressing how excited he was about having standing urinals around Soho....they've had to close the toilets because there were too many complaints about men having sex in them. Now that's what I'd call expensive but I guess if it's for the benefit of men it'll be a price worth paying for Owen and chums.

The Wahaca solution is a row of all enclosed cubicles, each with sink inside that people of any sex can use one at a time. Which I 100% support, for women and transpeople's safety.

It doesn't help with a transperson's affirmation though, since each cubicle is unisex and often I feel like that affirmation and passing what this whole rigamarole is about. And when I see trans allies failing to argue for, or actively arguing against third spaces it's hard not to wonder why, if "we just want to pee", a third space or an enclosed unisex cubicle is unacceptable.

I think it always gets derailed by toilets because that's the single sex space that you might visit the most frequently, but you actually are in it for the least amount of time. You also generally have full agency to leave anytime you like or feel uncomfortable so it feels safe.

Prisons, rape crisis shelters, hospital wards feel distant and unreal to the average person - oh most people will never experience that so it's not worth making policy for such extreme circumstances. But in fact, when you're there, you're almost certainly in a very vulnerable position, for a long time, and can't freely leave if there is an uncomfortable situation. That's exactly the kind of situation where a strict policy is needed to keep service users, patients and inmates safe.

I would also argue more adult women than men have been on a hospital ward overnight at some point, I was trying to describe to DH the vulnerability I would have felt having men on the ward at night after both my births and realised he has never been admitted to hospital in his life. Out of curiosity I asked a lot of friends and almost none of our male friends had ever stayed overnight in hospital (we are all mid-30s) whereas almost all the women had, and not just when pregnant or having children.

What is the Wahaca Soho solution? I've googled and that hasn't been very helpful. I've learned that it's a chic restaurant and TripAdvisor says the hand-dryers were out of order.

Regardless of expense, safe toilet provision is necessary. It is a public good and Labour is supposed to be about investing public money in those, I thought.

I get regular emails from one charity about how lack of safe toilet facilities for girls leads to girls missing education in developing countries.

Bogged down

I'd mind, hugely. But to be fair that is because I know who Paris is and they are very misogynistic and verbally aggressive and have a past history of physical violence. I would 100% duck out of the toilets if I saw Paris Lees in there.

Same here. But another similar MTF trans person who passed, who would know?

Most people would not mind to go to the same toilets as Paris Lees

I'd mind, hugely. But to be fair that is because I know who Paris is and they are very misogynistic and verbally aggressive and have a past history of physical violence. I would 100% duck out of the toilets if I saw Paris Lees in there.

Though you're asking the right question. The reasons the discussions get "bogged down" (heh) is that the TRAs consistently make it about toilets because when people start thinking about mixed-sex changing rooms or hospital wards a lot of them start actually thinking.

Bogged down

Why do these discussions always get bogged down in toilets.

Most people would not mind to go to the same toilets as Paris Lees most people would mind being in the same hospital ward as Karen White.

Mr O’Brian is not as good at being right as he thinks he is.

Men having a chat about how toilets for women are too expensive.

Oh obvs. After the revolution, maybe, ladies.

Men having a chat about how toilets for women are too expensive.

Paris will be turned on by the other TRAs for having “passing privilege” because that’s what this movement thrives on.

I don't feel remotely sorry for Paris. If Paris passes so well as to never be challenged and didn't get naked in a communal space, who would know to exclude Paris? Red herring emotional blackmail.

Swivel-chairs, the lot of them. Love it. ❤️

O,brien was a misogynist wee prick to posie.

He sees which way this is going so swivelling like an office chair

James has caused quite the stir on Twitter by saying 'I don't think there should be penises in women's spaces'. Owen, Ash, Paris, Munroe....

They are all thinking 'fuck, if we are losing the likes of James O' Brien then we are screwed'. The panic is palpable.

Meanwhile James is cowardly trying to backpedal by retweeting Paris Lees's hurt tweets on this, but without any further clarification from himself. He is always the big man on the radio isn't he, always very confident to 'stand up to bigots' and make them look stupid. But now he is finding himself veering towards 'the wrong side of history' and he doesn't know what to do.

Don't worry James, we've all been there. Maybe you could ask Jo for some advice

Here's OJ with his input to the Genital Inspections mantra. He is so willing to sell this line I am begging to suspect Linda Grant is about to give him a plastic award for his bookshelf in appreciation of his services to expanding her hetero readership.

JKR. V O.brien

No competition.

Simple as that

I don't think any clematis growing association has made a name for themselves with aggressive posturing on social media, but if it did, people would be more likely to keep 2m away from people wearing that association's t-shirts.