A personal plight

Sorry for the double post - not sure what happened.

I think this is a very important post OP.

All teens struggle with understanding who they are, but gay teens especially so.

I'd further add that I think it's hardest for sex non conforming lesbians.

Most women who are "celebrated" are so because of their feminine attributes.

One suggestion is to look at PeachyYoghurts Channel on YouTube.

She's an incredibly witty and clever gender critical Dutch lesbian who is brilliant at pointing out the flaws in TRA ideology in a humorous way.

Have a look and see if you think any of her videos might resonate with your daughter.

I'd also suggest you look up Lily Maynard whose written about her experiences when her 14 year old daughter identified as trans (and later desisted).

Other resources worth a look are Transgender Trend and Charlie Evans (The Detransition Advocacy Network) medium.com/@charlie.evans/charlie-evans-on-inventing-transgender-children-and-young-people-book-launch-27-10-19-11cc5c1343ce.

This wasn't a discussion on the rights and wrongs of gaming. No wonder everyone avoids the feminism boards.

I did say anything about the rights and wrongs of gaming, just that lockdown isn’t an excuse to leave your kid unattended, talking to strangers online.

Because it isn’t.

And clearly not everyone avoids the feminism boards or there would be no one here having this discussion.

I think this is a very important post OP.

All teens struggle with understanding who they are, but gay teens especially so.

I'd further add that I think it's hardest for sex non conforming lesbians.

Most women who are "celebrated" are so because of their feminine attributes.

One suggestion is to look at PeachyYoghurts Channel on YouTube.

She's an incredibly witty and clever gender critical Dutch lesbian who is brilliant at pointing out the flaws in TRA ideology in a humorous way.

Have a look and see if you think any of her videos might resonate with your daughter.

I'd also suggest you look up Lily Maynard whose written about her experiences when her 14 year old daughter identified as trans (and later desisted).

Other resources worth a look are Transgender Trend and Charlie Evans (The Detransition Advocacy Network) medium.com/@charlie.evans/charlie-evans-on-inventing-transgender-children-and-young-people-book-launch-27-10-19-11cc5c1343ce.

This wasn't a discussion on the rights and wrongs of gaming. No wonder everyone avoids the feminism boards.

No its about how a 12 year old is mixing in circles and finding them abusive and is having a response from that which is troubling.

You can not ignore the problem of a 12 year old gaming if its part of the dynamic of what's going on.

Oh come on, it’s not that simple and you know it. Especially when you run the risk of an 18 year old horse being angry, resentful and full of distress kicking it’s way out.

Anyway, I think the OP actually wanted some help here, not endless kicking about her parenting.

If the horse has bolted you go catch it and then put a new lock on the stable door, you don’t just wave at it’s disappearing arse!

Op has a choice and clearly she's got the problem of the horse having bolted but that doesn't mean you continue down that road of exposing your child to that environment!

Honestly, 12 year old says 'I've been in an environment which is abusive and that doesn't make me feel like I want to experience it as a girl' you don't then go 'oh well since she's already done that she should continue in that environment that the 12 year old herself has explicitly stated she finds abusive.

You have a conversation about why it might not be such a good idea aged 12.

but the real world of a kid in a 15 week lockdown means whatever keeps them going really.

Bollocks.

Step up and parent.

Here are two recent threads that might be useful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3953878-12-yr-old-DD-Gender-Dysphoria-sudden-announcement

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3952739-The-effect-of-lockdown-on-transitioning-teen-girls

I’m afraid cutting out contact with strangers is really important - that doesn’t mean taking away games, just the online aspect.

You need to know exactly who she is talking to, which means limiting online use to real world friends only.

Restricting online access is completely normal parenting for a 12 year old, so don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. You wouldn’t let her go out in the street one her own chatting to strangers, don’t let the online version happen.

No.

If she was in this situation in the real world you'd react differently. You are now making excuses for why you aren't prepared to step up parent and take her out of a situation she's not mature enough to handle. She's said she's aware of the abuse in the community and doesn't like it. What are you deliberately trying not to see here?

Shes 12 fgs. Seriously I've been in this community. 12 is far too young even if 'all her mates are doing it'. Be a parent.

Problem is red if paxillin now stops her it’s classic closing the stable door after the horse and all that.

Plus, at least the DD has been able to discuss it with her mum at 12, while she’s still impressionable. Better than at 16, IMO.

Im sorry but you are abdicating responsibility here.

Your first post stated you'd do anything to protect her and then you immediately say to the contrary by letting a twelve year old play.

Her response is one which is demonstrating she isn't emotional mature enough to deal with the pressures of that world and your response is to say 'oh but coronavirus'.

That's not an adequate response. Sorry.

To be blunt about it, the world of gaming isn't for 12 year olds. Boys or girls.

The role models are youbtube gamers, LouHotel. It is a male world. She games. Few girls do.

Having been a gamer and knowing what the community is like I would not let a 12 year old girl anywhere near it now.

Dh and I gamed a lot in our 20s and early 30s and it was incredible how adult it was. I always gamed under a male name to avoid the sexualised interactions and sexist attitudes and abuse. I was considerably older than most playing and was very aware of how other players gave you more respect it you were a guy. I did tell players I got to know and knew respected me in time and in fairness they understood why I did it.

Dh is very open minded and not much shocked him but what happened to 14 year olds in that community and how parents didn't know what was going on staggered even him. He often pulled up other players for their behaviour.

The real world is very different to the online world though. She shouldn't be doing 'they' because ultimately you can't escape your physical appearance in the real world and you are always going to be treated as female whether you like it or not at some point.

She sounds like she is blurring the boundaries between real life and the gaming world here as she's too immature to deal with that adult world.

There is no way in hell I'd let a daughter of mine near it now, without me fully aware of everything (I'd literally insist on playing with her).

There have been scandals reported in the press just this week about the sexism and sexual abuse in the gaming world.

Tread carefully. I've seen enough first hand that would shock most people. Sexual harassment of friends and stalking of them via friends, family and their workplace. Police involved in more than one incident.

How does she feel about the world of gaming? Does she recognise that it's a space where women get tons of abuse? (Even if, I hope, she's not yet aware of the specific of that abuse.) Discussing that - without linking it explicitly to her decision to go 'non-binary' - might be a good starting point.

There are also some interesting kids' books that have been published in the past few years that focus on girl gamers. e.g. www.girlcodethebook.com/

Something that does sometimes get lost in our more modern times is that being gay is a process that takes some coming to terms with. That’s not because it needs fixing or is wrong, of course, but just because anything that’s different to the norm does.

Being in a sexual minority is a process and there are often negative feelings associated with this. Feelings of anger, denial, pride, shame, even feeling dirty - are normal. I think some young gay people are worried about sharing these feelings in case others think they are homophobic or in case they are impatiently brushed off under a ‘well there is nothing wrong with being gay!’ sort of response which is true but not helpful when you’re struggling. I’m not suggesting you do this obviously OP: just that the way the world is at the moment it’s actually quite hard to question yourself!

Being trans is comparatively easy, from a 12 year olds perspective. You don’t need difficult conversations about who you fancy or have to worry about your mates giving you a side-eye in the changing rooms: it’s an accident of nature, wrong body, simples.

I think understanding this - I could be wrong, I’m not 12! - might help, though. Being gay doesn’t need fixing or changing but she might just need a little longer to digest it.

Gender stereotyping needs to be fixed, that's all. I am so sick of people telling me I'm not a typical woman because i like beer, footbal, pizza and hard-core sci-fi. On the other hand i like dresses, heels, lipsticks and cocktails...
The Pink/Blue thing has gone way too far and that is the root of the problem. What's wrong with a little girl being a pirate? with a little boy liking the feel of wearing a soft, floaty dress? liking both at the same time?

With the gaming, I don't do online gaming but I am a gamer and I am a SAHM mum of 3 so all sorts of women game which might help to know.

Yeah basically what StillWeRise said.