Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

Agreed just. There is a reason why public toilets get focused on, when of course practically speaking they will always be self policed, with few issues in about 999 out of 1000 cases. What I'm actually bothered about is the fact that humans are born the sex they remain becoming a forbidden statement. Paris Lees being in the ladies... bad example, but lovely S who I know and who doesn't pass but is a gentle soul... who cares. A legal statement that S always was female and there is no difference between us... now I'm bothered.

What was controversial about JKRs post?

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are

I'm sure most here will empathise with personal suffering, but that still doesn't mean that women must give up their protected spaces.I think the trans lobby, likewise, need to empathise with what women and girls experience, and understand this issue as they perceive and experience it.

Transwomen and women are not the same. There are very real differences.

Lavatory is the term we used when I was a child, but only for public facilities and school. At home it was the bath room cuz that's where the bath tub was. No bath tubs in lavatories, you see?

They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point)

I'm going to be honest and say that the issue is that many of us have .....full stop.... is with the whole idea that there is such a thing as a "genuine transgender" person. With the idea that someone is actually born in the 'wrong body'. With the ideology of contemporary transgenderism. And it is a an ideology: a framing of personal discomfort or distress with one's expected sex role along the lines of a specific gendered idea of what it means to be male or female.

What we tend to see is that genuine bodily dysphoria, which was 'traditionally' considered a mental/adaptational health issue, is now being posited as an indicator of a someone who was literally born in the wrong body. That the real indicator of sex, is in someone's mind.

It isn't! It is not just about the seemingly prosaic matter of toilets or changing rooms, but about the instinctive and felt need for same sex privacy dignity, comfort, and so on. Most women understand this.

Good luck with the move Nink and come back to us foodies when you have the headspace! Xx

Going back to your original post, OP

“We are all entitled to an opinion...”

does that mean JKR be an post her opinions without fear of death or rape threats?

"W.C." (always abbreviated) is fairly common on UK public signage (so worth knowing - I know an American who came here and had no idea what it meant) (in fact I've seen it in a number of other European countries too so its usefulness goes beyond Britain).

"Toilet" used to be considered "non U" (vulgar, common). I used to have a Barbara Cartland etiquette manual and the polite term according to her is "lavatory". I seem to recall she rejected WC.

W.C. Definitely Works in all German speaking countries. It is even the most common wording to ask for the ‚W. C.‘ (pronounced we ce).

Looking forward to seeing your future updates kelcat. You are right that there is so much to consider. But once you see the breadth of the impact (potential and actual) you cannot unsee it.

Yes, in fact, I started from the same position as OP, possibly more ‚woke‘: I even remember telling my 2 1/2 year old boy that, no, he won‘t become a woman when growing up (he had asked and I hadn‘t given my answer any thought in that moment) and then flagellating myself about it for weeks. Had I limited him? Damaged him? Denied his true self? Next time I would tell him that it was a matter of who he felt he was! (He never raised it again, for him it was settled).

And I am a scientist ffs. That‘s how brainwashed I was. (Not denying gender confusion or dysphoria can be a thing in kids and this is surely difficult to navigate. But I was ready to start a confusion where there was none, even by ‚woke‘ standards). And then Miranda Yardley burst my bubble. Haha.

I think if you start of as framing a disagreement or a conflict as hate, then that will shape your understanding that passes going forward.
in order to genuinely understand , you have to cast aside your prejudicial mind-set and hear what is being said.

@Xiaoxiong if you’re still on the frugal foodies thread please say hi to everyone from me and give my best wishes to all. Have been busy packing up our home for a very big move, and also been consumed with all matters feminist/FWR over the past couple of months, which has meant I’ve let that one slip (can only keep so many things going in my head at once).

But it's rare in conversation.

Nothing to say but good on ya OP. You're a real sport and it takes some character to react to the chorus of voices disagreeing with your original post the way you have on this thread. I'm impressed! Please stick around, you're a good egg.

KelCat9494 I'm hugely impressed with you sticking with this thread. Most of us started from a similar position, I wince a bit at how naive I was when I was a trans ally.

Hope things get less stressful for you and all goes well with the baby.

What I don't understand is why you in the UK call them toilets instead of water closets the way we USians were told you did. We say bathroom and you say water closet, except you don't.

Ironically, there are numerous transpeople who very much disagree with the current orthodoxy, take women‘s concerns seriously and are great allies. (Miranda Yardley comes to mind). But instead of hearing them or hearing anyone at least ready to listen to women‘s concerns, those who are amplified basically act like women with an opinion are the personified Holocaust and need to be battered into Submission in ‚Self Defense.‘ (remember the ‚Girls‘ with the baseball bats?) And some blokes on the left celebrate this misogynyst shit. It is quite the eye opening dynamic.

OP - I’m glad things are going better for you now.
Your latest post about cutting your hair off has me worrying about you but I see that you’ve asked for help on other Mumsnet boards. I hope you are getting the support you need.