Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

Kelcat9494

you’ve cheered me up- usually people come on here, declare us transphobic and then flounce off when they realise that that’s not really the case! It’s a revelation to have this conversation with someone reasonable

The vast majority of men just go into the toilet to pee.

The vast majority of men would never assault a transwoman.

So by their own rules of why the status quo should change, there's no reason.

And do you really think a bigot looking to bash a transwoman would let the sign on the women's toilet stop him? By their own rules being in the woman's toilets doesnt make them safer.

So its not about safety is it? It's about colonisation and ignoring women who say no. Same old misogny

@KaptenKrusty have you actually got any experience of living with the TRA ideals? They're not even possible for them to live by because the normal trans people arent a problem. It is this growing number of mentally unwell individuals trying to force everything to conform to how they want to see the world

Much like you are doing by coming on to a feminist chat and demanding it is filled with parenting advice and pram recommendations because it doesnt fit your own agenda and ideals.

Personally I came for the parenting & stayed for the feminism but you do you.

Do you realise that the person in the left photograph is Buck Angel, who is very much aware that they are still biologically female? Considered a traitor to the trans community by some for having reasonable views on what is male and what is female...

it's a real shame that this has taken over and it's pushing genuine users who want fucking parenting advice or support away!

Thats just not true is it. There so many topics for people to post in and to read. And looking at active there is a full range of issues and topics being posted about daily.

If you no longer like the site then leave it. There is a Flouncers corner you can post your departure message in.

I think you need to look into things a bit more. Even pink news had to correct their article to explain that in theory yes a man who has had no surgery no hormones etc could get a grc.

Take it up with stonewall. They are the ones who have expanded the umbrella so much it vasicalky includes everyone whilst simultaneously saying they can use whatever restroom they like.

Feminists defending their spaces that are enshrined in law is not the problem.

You need to be having a word with the activists who decided to get greedy and demand access to spaces they can be legally excluded from and threatening everyone who doesn't agree.

Do you not think if they had kept their mouths shut then then those who have fully transitioned and were so few as to not really be a problem would be in a better place right now?

Thats on them not us.

I think the really harmful thing here is telling (often) young or vulnerable people that are struggling to operate in a society that forces gender norms on them that they are in the wrong body. Gender norms are inherently sexist and based on the understanding that women should like pink and cooking and being submissive and a whole host of other things. (And obviously applies to men just as much).

Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being those things if you're a woman. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with liking those things if you're a man. Having a penis does not mean you can't enjoy those things or that you should transition so you can enjoy those things.

I agree with you on your point that genitals are usually kept private. Why are we encouraging vulnerable people to change themselves based on the fact that their genitals dont match what they enjoy doing or looking like or identifying as?

Surely a better world would be one where we got rid of those sexist, outdated gender norms and encouraged everyone to live as they see fit regardless of their sex?

not sure why the fuck I still have a profile on this toxic site tbh! I like it on here but all the anti trans stuff is so weird - it's a real shame that this has taken over and it's pushing genuine users who want fucking parenting advice or support away!

This is feminist chat we don't tend to talk about prams or the best nappies to use on this part. There are plenty of other boards for that. We talk about what effects women and girls.

I'd like to see what you think of as anti trans. There are plenty of trans people who don't buy into the TRA line.

Thanks for the nice pics. If those people are transgender they've obviously spent years and presumably tens of thousands of pounds on transforming their appearance, from an already genetically blessed baseline.

How many ordinary trans people present this way? Women can tell. Men will always look, sound, breathe and smell like men unless they go through extreme processes.

not sure why the fuck I still have a profile on this toxic site tbh! I like it on here but all the anti trans stuff is so weird - it's a real shame that this has taken over and it's pushing genuine users who want fucking parenting advice or support away!

Pretty sure you can hide whole topics, and avoid threads?

Interesting that you put a photo of Buck Angel up. Buck agrees with JK Rowling...I’d suggest you have a look on Twitter and see what’s been said.

The only transwomen I come close to hating are the convicted sex offenders who manipulate their way into women's prison and offend there as well.

You're not the first person to wade into the debate, without really being fully apprised of everything.

It's not easy, so fortunately, others before you have done the same.

This thread here is the result.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

One thing that you need to get to grips with OP is that dislike of the gender identity ideology, for example people can change sex just because they declare it so, is not the same as disliking trans people.

Posts that express a dislike of trans people get deleted from here pretty quickly and while they are up they tend to attract criticism from regular posters.

Can you imagine a reason Op, why feminists might object to a company whose board of directors are 100% Eton alumni being able to claim a 50/50 gender split on said board?

Okay fair enough, from some of the posts I've read that comes up on the "active" page seemed hateful towards trans-people

Can you be specific? What was hateful about them?

There’s is no hate here for trans people. It absolutely none of my business how anyone else chooses to live their life and I will do everything I can to support anyone who in need.

I centre women in my life. Women’s rights, women’s safety and any interest of concern to women come first.

I will not set myself on fire to keep you warm.
I am totally comfortable with my stance and I make no explanation or apology for that.

hahahhahahahhahahhaha

Oh please try to behave like a grown up if you expect people to take you seriously and engage in any kind of debate with you. If you're merely here to bait and screenshot hunt then I'll go and find something else to do.

You write my impression of trans people are those who don't identify with the gender of their body and go through procedures (whether it be the full blown transition or taking medication).

You do realise that few men who identify as women make any significant medical changes and that fewer than 10% have genital surgery? Most of those who demand access to women only spaces have fully functional male bodies. And they commit male pattern crime. Men commit the overwhelming majority of violent crime and nearly all sex crime.

There are very good reasons for sex segregation when women and girls are unclothed, asleep or otherwise vulnerable. Why should we agree to making those spaces mixed sex?

I'm learning but my impression of trans people are those who don't identify with the gender of their body and go through procedures (whether it be the full blown transition or taking medication) to make them identify more with the gender they feel they are.

This assumes that everyone else “identifies with the gender of their body”. Most of us don’t identify as anything (and so by the definition of the trans umbrella are non-binary or something). We only accept that our sexed bodies have an impact on the way we live our life and the way others treat us.

As you would know if you’d bothered to read even one of the hundreds/thousands of threads already on this very informative forum. Maybe before starting your own thread to question the motives of everyone else posting on here, you would do well to do some of this “learning” independently rather than expecting us all to spoon feed you. We may be Mumsnet but we’re not all mums and those of us who are have had enough of pandering to other people and expect our leisure time to be interesting and enjoyable, not more bloody emotional parenting of people who can’t be bothered to do the work themselves. Have a little read - “the break it down for me” thread for example, and then maybe start another thread when you’re more informed.

not sure why the fuck I still have a profile on this toxic site tbh! I like it on here but all the anti trans stuff is so weird - it's a real shame that this has taken over and it's pushing genuine users who want fucking parenting advice or support away!

impression of trans people are those who don't identify with the gender of their body and go through procedures (whether it be the full blown transition or taking medication) to make them identify more with the gender they feel they are.

But bodies don't have a gender. They have a sex, which is coded in every cell.

Gender is a social structure.

We don't segregate facilities by 'gender' because it's completely subjective.

We segregate toilets (mostly; nowt wrong with additional unisex provision) by sex, because a) women need spaces where they are vulnerable to be off limits to men, who if they are decent men fully respect this whatever their personal gender feels & b) men find it convenient to use urinals, which are no use to women, so the sex segregated facilities are slightly different in design.

By the way, Buck Angel is a crap gotcha - they are very clear that they are biologically female. Welcome in the Ladies any time.

I'm just a big transphobe though. Like how I transphobically spent all my money and time and professional skill so he could live like he wanted.

I just hate them that much.

I definitely hate the trans friends who are willing to stand up and back me up on how abusive and manipulative he is.

I dont think some people understand the lengths abusers will go to to abuse but NOT look the victim. If he did it as a man he loses any victim status. It's that simple.