Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

According to stonewall I come under the trans umbrella and I’ve Never experienced any hate here at all. And I’ve been here for many years.

So I don’t really know what the Op is talking about.

And as for free sanpro - that’s an excellent idea, why don’t you start a campaign about it and I’m sure lots of MNers will sign up?

Who do you think should fund it - the NHS , government or local authorities ?

Thank you Kelcat9494 for your responses. Most of us started from the point of view that it wasn't a problem - and then we started to see the aggression aimed at women who wanted to discuss the contradictions, the silencing and, for many of us, especially parents, the deliberate targeting of children in schools with the "if you're unhappy with your body / pubertal changes then you must be born in the wrong body" .

It's difficult, it's thought provoking and these issues need to be dealt with sensitively. But that's currently impossible because of all the "you're a bigot and need to die in a grease fire" responses made to any woman who dares to speak out. Keep talking, keep thinking and when you see a pile on like has happened to JKR, keep asking why some are so desperate for women to be forbidden from asking that our sex based rights be respected?

No, men and their words and their spaces are left alone, on the whole.

OP why not read-read-read until you understand more rather than just jumping in and expecting everyone to spoon feed you information.

Just leave your kids with me. Cuz I'm a woman. Hardly any women abuse kids so I dont need safe guarding checks.

@Datun absolutely. Why should we all be paying for these checks when its men who do most of the crimes they're bothered about?

I've already said they are things I didn't consider and have taken ownership of that and have said I will educate myself

Okey doke. Look forward to your future, better-informed contributions.

kelcat

I have had time to read all the thread as it is moving way to fast.

Do you have a suggestion how to deal with the discrimination that females face in employment due to their biology? For instance in the case of pregnancy protections? For instance for the fact that women still have huge inequality in representation in many, many sectors. (Eg. around 20% of uni lecturers are female and a minuscule number are BAME) And yet you have MPs stating that if a gender balanced board is 50% men and 50% transwomen that is satisfactory in their opinion. And we are seeing more women’s officer roles going to transwomen and NB people and often when there is separate LBTIQ+ roles as well. How does this actually represent women’s needs?

And sport?

Has anyone ever seen anything telling men to #bekind and stop being violent towards transwomen so they can feel comfortable using the toilets and leave the women’s toilets for women? No?

Could that be because it’s not really about feeling safe, it’s about validating their feelings and demanding acceptance from women. They want to play act being a woman and we’re not reading the script properly.

I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault

For gods sake. This is the level of the argument isn't it? Embarrassing.

Let's just dispense with laws altogether, including all safeguarding and DBS checks. Because these paedophiles committing crimes isn't the fault of the non-paedophiles is it.

Ultimately it comes down to the difference between sex and gender and how this makes a difference in law and the detrimental effect on women in particular in how it facilitates a loss of rights and only expands the rights of trans women (and notably not trans men).

And don't use the pretty people as your gotcha.

Firstly, it's incredibly offensive to the majority of transpeople who struggle to pass.

Secondly it's incredibly offensive to women to pretend that the vast majority of transpeople are not clearly their natal sex.

In reality, the lucky few do get to use whatever toilets they like but it doesnt mean that women should ignore a millennia of inbuilt sex recognition instincts that evolved to keep us safe.

If a safe, third space was created for transgender people in sports, bathrooms, changing rooms et al, i think you would find that transphobia does not exist at all, among feminists at least.

As a long standing mumsnetter I think I can post more than 3 photos? But I’ve got stuff to do IRL so maybe just one screen shot. One of the photos in the OP is a transman who will have attracted considerable transphobia. I think this is Buck, an example here of Buck’s support for JK Rowling and her proposal to civilly discuss the impact of changes on women and girls.

I don’t see any hate here .

There are a lot of considerations around dangerous predators piggybacking on self ID, the potential impact on women’s sport and child transitioning. I started a thread with a link to a blog where lawyers broke down the impact of the proposed SelfID on discrimination law which I found very interesting.

I am still trying to learn, so can I ask the regular posters here a question. It seems that the two main things GC women are told are “be kind” and “educate yourself”.... But then you look into all potential damage potential legislative changes can have on very vulnerable women and girls.

Is it the same posters that tells us to “be kind” and “educate ourselves”? They do seem quite mutually exclusive in the context they are used ?

Anyone?

The people in your opening post are still the sex they were born us.

Buck Angel has nearly died from the awful amount of surgery they have had.

Many women are petrified of their children being sterilised, on medication for life and retaining the genitals of children, unless they have life-threatening surgery. Trans ideology is being taught in schools.

Also, transgender ideology says that this person is a woman. They are a convicted paedophile and multiple rapist (they raped a pregnant woman), and this person was put in a female prison where they were subsequently convicted of sexually assaulting two women.

This should simply not be possible.

There are a hell of a lot of 'I's in the OP.

Its almost as it if they haven't thought about it from another perspective or from the point of view of someone with a different life experience.

I can't understand why people can't put themselves in another persons shoes and are completely blind to why some people are more vulnerable or have life experience which makes them wary of certain situations that another wouldn't blink at.

There isn't hate here. Just an acknowledgement and understanding that there are some people who are more priviledged than others, and priviledge does not run along the lines of gender exclusively. There are some trans people who are a hell of a lot more priviledged than abused, poor women.

In other words, its a bit more complicated than the singular, narrow life experience of the OP who can't get past the word I.

Hi there. I’m a new contributor to this site but was brought to it by my horror at the vitriol directed at J K Rowling recently. I can’t speak for others but I would like to make it very clear that I don’t ‘hate’ anyone. I would defend a trans person like my own child if they were being bullied or harassed by reason only of their transgender status. However, I don’t agree with some of the arguments and aims of the transgender campaign / rights protesters. Disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean you hate them! Most of us learn this at primary school. I have been dismayed at the level of intellectual immaturity and lack of logical thought displayed by those screaming transphobia at those who disagree in any way with their views. It will not advance their cause.

I've just come off Twitter because I can't stand it at the moment, it's a respite area of thoughtfulness on here (helped by not having to stick to limited characters).

I just can't believe that people are trying to say that men are women and women are men. I can't believe it. But they really are - in law, policy, sports, universities, everything.

I agree with you that toilets are the least concerning issue of all, in the scheme of things. Which is why TRAs constantly harp on about it (that and because of the American context). I certainly would have ni issue at all with a transitioned colleague using the ladies at work, as I'd know them. Skanky men wandering in and standing there staring, knowing that you've got no practical redress? You think that wouldn't happen?

OP, you'll find consistently on FWR a belief that mixed sex third spaces should be made available. This would ensure trans people are not compelled to use spaces that they are uncomfortable in or feel unsafe in, as it's not right or ok that this should be the case for anyone. It would also ensure that female people who can only use single sex spaces have equal access to spaces they are not uncomfortable in and do not feel unsafe in, and are not excluded.

Everyone heard. Everyone's needs valued. Solutions found that meet everyone's best interests equally by addition of provision rather than removing provision from some to the benefit of others. Surely that's a truly progressive society?

I don’t dislike trans at all. It has never been an issue in the past. But I don’t want my 12 year old daughter changing at a guide camp with a trans girl in the same room.

and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you?

I'm happy to share my tampax supplies with any trans man who requires them. What with them biologically being women and possibly still requiring them.

I can't see any situation where it would be appropriate to share my tampax with a transwomen, because they are biologically male and will never have any requirement for sanitary products.

I'm not anti trans, I'm anti biological males appropriating womanhood and taking women's rights for themselves at the expense of women's sports, women's safety and women's dignity.

I don't care who I have a wee next to. But I have the empathy to recognise that other women can't have or don't want biological males in places that are supposed to be safe places for women.

Why does #bekind only apply to the thoughts and actions of biological women. Why can't others #bekind and understand some women's very easily understood concerns about this and support us in campaigning for ubiquitous unisex spaces in addition to single sex spaces. Surely that would make everyone happy... and if not why not?

I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault

No it's biological men's fault. As soon as transwomen can develop a watertight system to let us know which of them are genuinely transwomen and which of them are predatory men pretending to be transwomen then we can talk. Even then that doesn't change that many women CANNOT share spaces with biological men.

single sex spaces for women that want them.
Single sex spaces for men who want them.
Unisex spaces for people who don't care or need mixed sex spaces.