Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

Yes that really does sum it up @Kelcat9494

I think that if TRAs hate Mumsnet then in some ways that's a good thing. They hate us because they fear the light being shone on the whole movement. If they knew that they were making reasonable requests, requests that would cause no harm to others, they would be happy to discuss.

In case you missed it:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Mumsnet gets called a hotbed of transphobia by TRAs.

I miss the days when we were called a nest of vipers by MRAs.

We're just women doing womaning wrong, according to men, as usual.

Thank you @caramac04 and @JellyFishSquish.

(FWIW I think there are more and more gay people seeing the homophobia within current trans-activism. We need to keep speaking up.)

Thought your post was excellent, Ramblingwords

Punctuation exists

Oh good ,...women do it too ....another bingo point ticked

dodo
I agree with you. However, I find it interesting that some new posters come with preconceived ideas from something they have read and some from reading a post on mumsnet.

I am always interested in what reading may have helped form a view since I feel the need to read more myself. Since OP is willing to discuss their point of view, I was interested in why they formed the opinion that this board was so phobic.

I just came back to ask the same question as Winesalot.

It would be really interesting to know where you formed the idea that Mumsnet is full of trans hate threads.

I believe this is a common misconception/misrepresentation on other forums and platforms. Also sometimes trolls have been known to post hateful comments and take screenshots to 'prove' the transphobia here because they can't find any of it displayed in genuine posts.

TW - we can’t use male facilities we are at risk in them.
TW - Everyone who identifies as a woman must be able to use female facilities, you can’t police it.

I don’t understand how the second point doesn’t rather screw up the first one. It’s not the sign on the door that makes the women’s facility less risky, it’s who isn’t in it.

Women, unfortunately, are not immune to intimidating other women in bathroom facilities either - you just need to check out the gay clubs to see evidence of that. I'm certain I am not alone amongst gay woman in having been followed by other women to toilets on a night out in the expectation of something more. Thankfully most of the gay clubs have attendants now which probably helps address this.

OP. Why did you think that there were hate threads?

I think, actually, there is some hatred of despicable behaviour. J. Yaniv's behaviour, for instance, or the weird actions of some ex-partners on the trans-widows threads, or the actions of those who campaign against single-sex spaces and then turn out to have a criminal underbelly.

I hate what's happened to my young relative. I hate what that's done to her bewildered wider family. I really hate the thought that she'll one day realise that she has damaged her health and fertility in pursuit of an impossible goal.

I don't think there is general 'hate for trans sake', if you see what I mean.

I think most Transwomen would potentially be in great danger of verbal abuse and physical assault in men’s public toilets.

Presumably that is an obviously male transwoman? I don't think there is substantial risk in men's loos- I've used them for 40 years and have never seen anyone (transvestites included) being randomly abused. Men don't speak or make eye contact in the loo.

Certainly some knobheads target people who are different. There will be some places (mostly pubs) which would not be safe, but this is sadly true of many groups in society; I've been run out of a pub for being Catholic. I think the main risk in toilets is probably women being sexually assaulted.

CuriousaboutSamphire I have only just read the apology that's what makes us all human regardless of gender as my famous quote goes it takes one family to educate and one to destroy I feel we are all here to educate and be educated.

I think most Transwomen would potentially be in great danger of verbal abuse and physical assault in men’s public toilets.

You think, do you have any evidence of this?

Males in my family have on several occasions shared public toilets with transwomen and have stated that there has never been verbal abuse or physical assault whilst they were present nor, to their knowledge, has any been reported.

A sign on the door doesn't stop people

Social convention does

Knowledge that everyone will know they are up to no good does

The fact that some men react aggressively or violently to male people who don’t fit their ideas of masculinity is a male problem. The solution is not to use women as human shields, it’s not even an option under the new methodology. It’s not possible for anyone to use female single sex spaces as a refuge from male violence when you have made the spaces unchallengeably mixed sex.

secondly, if someone is out to get you, having a sign on a door will not stop them. Except there is something about that sign on the female loos that does stop angry and aggressive men! That male socilaising, the unwritten social contract.

As Erish said, many women post on so many threads that they escape from their abusive OH by dipping into public loos. I have done so myself. So it obviously has some affect on some men.

@rc22 Thank you...it ended up a bit longer than intended, but I’ve been having to explain myself a lot recently, and occasionally people are actually listening.

@Ramblingwords, an interesting and thoughtful post. Thank you

But I do want to take issue with the claim that apparently lots of ‘hate threads’ on the active page are deleted. That simply is not true.

Yes. This.

OP. Why did you think that there were hate threads? Again, I have read all your posts. But I would like to know where you initially formed the idea. Twitter, other mumsnet discussions? Who had you been reading?

There are very few threads deleted. Many threads are started with the intention of grabbing screenshots and posting them as proof of the hate. Those are deleted sometimes. Lately, we have had a slew of threads started with the point being to shame any woman who expresses doubt about TW AW. Sometimes more than one a day. And lately, mumsnet have watched over them and removed pots that violate their guidelines (and posts quoting those posts) so it looks like Swiss cheese.

But much is learned on those threads too. New information gets posted and discussed with a fresh approach. Many times those who set out to shame women for their views merely post a few times and then leave. But it is the discussions that happen where there is sometimes new thoughts formed.

But, there is so much activity being targeted by people who which to close down this board on other platforms that it is interesting to know where people are forming their negative opinions from.

Or is it really simple in that it is just the titles of the threads?

secondly, if someone is out to get you, having a sign on a door will not stop them.

Actually Curious I think you're right as OP talks about having to buy sanpro. I'm always surprised when women don't actually get it and think it's just about some gentle soul peeing in the next cubicle.