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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

709 replies

Kelcat9494 · 05/07/2020 11:35

Hello,

Firstly I want to say I am not attacking anyone on this forum and I expect the same respect as we are all entitled to an opinion and I am genuinely interested in the reasons why transgender people get so much hate on here:

Firstly I see a lot about not wanting to share bathrooms with trans women as it's a women's safe space - I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really. I did read a post about a abuse survivor not wanting to the share the bathroom with someone with a penis (I'm really sorry that the person went through the abuse but that isn't trans people's fault, the fault is with the abuser alone) but in reality a trans person is more at risk in the bathroom and you have no idea whether they are pre op or post op as again in the bathrooms I've been in we don't show each other our genitalia. They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point).

I know JKRowling posted about periods and a lot of people jumped on it to say only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue? And who actually cares? There's enough tampax to go around, maybe let's focus on making them free for women and transmen as I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are and it's obviously not for fun and games because transgender people actually commit suicide over the issues they face remember #bekind and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you? I don't think you'd kill yourself over it.

OP posts:
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6
CuriousaboutSamphire · 06/07/2020 08:13

Because I don't come here to see images of half undressed people exemplifying gender stereotypes of masculinity and femininity, and the photos have nothing to do with feminism. But it did start a quite inolved conversation and, regardless of anyones intentions, it is all there to see, explained yet again.

Ginnyhip46 · 06/07/2020 04:34

@HeistSociety

Because I don't come here to see images of half undressed people exemplifying gender stereotypes of masculinity and femininity, and the photos have nothing to do with feminism.

The point of them is to demonstrate how cosmetic surgery makes females into a manly stereotype, and males into a female stereotype - but feminists reject the stereotypes altogether, and certainly don't find cleaving to gender stereotypes 'successfully' as evidence that sex is mutable.

Exactly this
NewNameNewShoes · 06/07/2020 04:01

I'm still learning OP, but one thing that strikes me is that many transwomen seem uncomfortable sharing changing rooms with heterosexual men but don't seem to care whether women feel uncomfortable sharing changing rooms with them.

Cagedbirdsinging · 06/07/2020 03:57

Placemarking .

TehBewilderness · 06/07/2020 01:47

You might want to report your post Painterpatty.
If reported you will be deleted for trollhunting. They are free to troll but we are not allowed to talk about it except to the mods when we report it.

Painterpatty · 06/07/2020 01:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Figrolls14 · 06/07/2020 01:29

I was replying to Marzipan who said they had been cheered up!

Figrolls14 · 06/07/2020 01:28

I totally agree

OldCrone · 06/07/2020 00:50

I thought these stats did not identify whether they were transmen or transwomen? The report I read just referred to 125 transgender prisoners - where are you seeing the information that they are all natal male, now transwomen?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/

Ministry of Justice (MoJ) figures in November said there were 139 transgender prisoners in 44 jails. Of the 42 in women’s jails, 22 were men who identified as female, while in male prisons 92 of the 97 were men identifying as women.

So according to these figures, out of 139 transgender prisoners, at least 114 are male. I say at least, because I understood that female transgender prisoners wouldn't be placed in men's prisons, because it obviously wouldn't be safe for them. So the other 5 prisoners in male prisons might be men who are non-binary or gender fluid or some other gender (out of the 985 or however many there are now).

HeistSociety · 06/07/2020 00:21

Because I don't come here to see images of half undressed people exemplifying gender stereotypes of masculinity and femininity, and the photos have nothing to do with feminism.

The point of them is to demonstrate how cosmetic surgery makes females into a manly stereotype, and males into a female stereotype - but feminists reject the stereotypes altogether, and certainly don't find cleaving to gender stereotypes 'successfully' as evidence that sex is mutable.

Porridgeoat · 06/07/2020 00:19

Trans women commit offences at the same rate as males.

Statistics around male abuse of women show higher rates of abuse in shared sex facilities. Single sex facilities are safe for women.

The discussing verbal abuse and threats trans supporters and trans people heap on females is shocking. I’ve never seen anything like it!

exwhyzed · 06/07/2020 00:06

@HeistSociety

Also OP, can you get your original post edited to remove the photos please?
Why?
HeistSociety · 05/07/2020 23:57

Also OP, can you get your original post edited to remove the photos please?

HeistSociety · 05/07/2020 23:51

@TehBewilderness

Do you reckon Mumsnet gets more or fewer hits when they host misogynists on the Feminism & Women's Rights board?
Presumably more, which is why they allow it.

It's very odd to me - one would think that misogynist perhaps would be discouraged from posting in Feminist Chat, but mods seem to feel it's ok.

HeistSociety · 05/07/2020 23:49

FFS.

I think I'm going to start spamming trans forums and telling them they need to do more feminism.

I don't care less if trans people want to come here and discuss feminist topics from.a feminist (woman centred pov) but all you guys ever do is arrive to deliver a lecture.

It's boring. It's not feminist. It's a bloody waste of our time, space and energy. Which is, perhaps, the point.

I can't be doing with people so stupid that they think disagreement on treatment for minors and self ID = hate. Too dumb.

suggestionsplease1 · 05/07/2020 23:41

[quote OldCrone]48% of sex offenders in prison identify as transwomen.

I don't think so. There are over 13,000 male sex offenders in prison in the UK.

48% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders, though (60 out of 125).

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/[/quote]
I thought these stats did not identify whether they were transmen or transwomen? The report I read just referred to 125 transgender prisoners - where are you seeing the information that they are all natal male, now transwomen?

Aesopfable · 05/07/2020 23:21

[quote OldCrone]48% of sex offenders in prison identify as transwomen.

I don't think so. There are over 13,000 male sex offenders in prison in the UK.

48% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders, though (60 out of 125).

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/[/quote]
Thanks. Yes you are right.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 05/07/2020 22:37

@StripeyBananas

Why are public toilets called "bathrooms " on threads about transsexual issues? Hmm
It’s an imported Americanism that doesn’t really apply - just makes me assume that whoever is using it hasn’t really thought through what they are saying, they are just repeating something they’ve read elsewhere.

I saw the term ‘UKQTIBIPOC’ being used earlier today. It stand for U.K. Queer, Trans, Intersex, Black, Indigenous, People of Colour.

Again, no independent thought has been applied before importing this North Americanism.

The last time I saw the term ‘indigenous’ in relation to the U.K. population it came from the odious Nick Griffin of the BNP!

OldCrone · 05/07/2020 22:22

48% of sex offenders in prison identify as transwomen.

I don't think so. There are over 13,000 male sex offenders in prison in the UK.

48% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders, though (60 out of 125).

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

Bluebooby · 05/07/2020 22:09

Op it's a refreshing change (compared to other "why do you hate trans" type posts) that you have taken the time to read the responses and listen to what people are saying and I apologise as I mistook you for someone who just wanted to cause trouble, but I think I was wrong.

I think if you're unfamiliar with this debate, sometimes langauge might sound a bit harsh and not what you're used to, and that may sound like hate to your ears, but if you step back and look at it objectively, it usually isn't. I won't say there is no hate at all as I have not read everything and people are people.

Sometimes even the most mildly put questions or critiques get labelled as abusive. If you have read JK Rowling's recent letter you'll see, I think, a compassionate caring woman who has put a lot of thought in to what she says and measured her words carefully. Yet in return she's been told to "fuck off and die" and "suck my dick" and so on, by multiple people, mostly (all?) male. So make of that what you will.

NotTerfNorCis · 05/07/2020 22:05

It looks like the OP changed her mind a few hours ago after getting answers on this thread, and apologised for being naive - click on OP's posts 'see all'.

Aesopfable · 05/07/2020 21:54

Sorry got that the wrong way round: transwomen are just as likely to be predators as other men. There are a lot less transwomen so a predator is more likely to be a man who is not a transwomen . But they are all men.

TehBewilderness · 05/07/2020 21:53

Do you reckon Mumsnet gets more or fewer hits when they host misogynists on the Feminism & Women's Rights board?

Aesopfable · 05/07/2020 21:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TehBewilderness · 05/07/2020 21:44

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.