Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

... it’s the position that the OP started from...

The word hate is mentioned in the title and in the original post. That original post goes on to list loads of things that you'd expect to see on these boards. None of those things listed could be described as hatred. Perhaps I have missed where OP does give actual examples, if so I'm sorry, I have missed that. Anyone?

If people want the title left as it is fair enough. I think it's dishonest and disingenuous. Tautology?

I personally agree that the title should stand. There’s no need to censor that, it’s the position that the OP started from and I think the resultant discussion is more authentic with it left to stand, however inaccurate it might be.

Whatever happened to that old put-down "pigeon-holes are for pigeons!" which used to be said when someone tried to tell another person how someone like them ought to behave?

It was used to say "girls can so play with Meccano!" and "boys are too allowed to dress up as the fairy queen if they want to!" when some interfering person tried to tell someone's child what was suitable or acceptable for their people of their sex.

I wish we had managed to go on moving in that direction instead of the manufacturers realising they could sell twice as many Things if male and female people couldn't ever use (say) irons or toothbrushes or waterbottles that were designed for the other sex, and each of a family had to have a gender-appropriate one of whatever it was. I swear that was the root of this whole complete-divide nonsense that is now rife.

You could get them to change the goady, untrue title of the thread maybe?

@lgbee Thank you for telling us your story. I'm glad that you have now found some kind of peace with it all.

Many people who are really invested in the whole gender ideology think it's freeing, but it's anything but. It's born out of an incredibly conservative view of what men and women are and wouldn't be out of place today in some extremely religious parts of the world that also have a real problem with homosexuality. I think much of it is also born out of a need to put things into ever smaller boxes, to assign labels to them, to name them. I'm this or I'm that. I see it a lot on Tumblr. I'm this pronoun, this star sign, this particular version of a demi sexuality. I think it's much more freeing to think 'I am biologically a woman......the end'. I think some of these people go round & round in circles trying to fit into a box because they don't feel like their identity is accepted by the world, instead of throwing them away all together.

Also, I can relate to what you said about drag XD I go through phases of it. You wouldn't guess that looking at me, but sometimes I look at beautiful vintage 50s teadresses online I think I would feel like I was dressed in drag if I dressed in that. Like I feel like I would have to have a cutesy personality to go with it....which I don't think I do! .

Well done OP I agree you have listened to other posters. I came to MN thinking the same as you. After reading some very researched and educated posts and started thinking about it a lot more I have changed my views. I will always respect someone’s choice and pro nouns but I know the truth.

OP I wanted to give you for participating in this discussion honestly, thoughtfully and with considered responses. That’s incredibly rare. So thank you for sticking around to read, coming back, clarifying and asking more questions, and most of all admitting quite quickly that that you had initially spoken without fully understanding the many nuances of this subject. It’s rare to see such integrity amongst first time posters on this topic.

Most transwomen, 9 in 10 have Their male genitalia. The sexual offending rate of transwomen is the same as men who don’t identify as a transwomen. The rate of offending in unisex facilities is greater than single sex facilities. We have rules for reasons!

@Prawnofthepatriarchy What thoughtful sons you have raised.

I grew up with a great Dad and a couple of brothers; I have two ADS’s. I’m not uncomfortable around men generally.
However, I was out walking with my dog this morning, rural fields, there had been a shower but I was getting hot in my waterproof jacket.
As I went to unzip it I realised there was a man walking towards me and waited until he has passed before I did so.
Why? I had a automatic compulsion to wait because I did not want to appear to be flaunting my breasts and draw attention to them.
This is from years, aged 13 onwards, of my breasts being commented on, leered at and groped without permission.
I definitely don’t want to share a toilet or a changing room with a man.

Most women DO support trans women..

Really?

Could you link to the research?

Your original post is completely wrong!

Most women DO support trans women. We’re not afraid of them and we’re not afraid of them to be in our spaces providing they too don’t have a penis.

What we ARE afraid of is the straight biological men who are not trans using this gateway to gain access to female only spaces...hence women are women!

I hope this post doesn't get removed, though I agree the pictures aren't really appropriate. Must be difficult for OP to keep getting messages upbraiding her after she's already acknowledged that she wasn't fully informed when posting it though!

I think the problem is that it does read exactly like one of those frequent passive-aggressive troll posts made by someone who has absolutely no interest in the answers to the questions they are asking. I was pleasantly surprised by OP's subsequent posts!

Yes, hear hear. The OP's actual post is referenced so many times that deleting it will gut the thread at the start, which would be a shame. Just the pictures going is fine, because people can work out what they were from what is said about them in replies.

@MNHQ please don’t delete the OP. This is a very good thread with a lot of great discussion.

Just the photos removed would be great.

It's not a difficult request for the OP to take on.

The fact the poster put up photos is another male kind of thing really - men are quite visual sexually perhaps more than women . I expect we can cope with the photo of underpants however.

I see no hate on this thread at all - just interesting discussion.

HeistSociety that was my first thought too. I haven't read the thread but did report the first post as I also don't want to see a photo of a man starting to take his trousers off.

It’s an imported Americanism that doesn’t really apply - just makes me assume that whoever is using it hasn’t really thought through what they are saying, they are just repeating something they’ve read elsewhere.

This. It's quite telling.