Caitlin Moran - a bit more interesting than usual today

Hatmancock, that was my favourite paragraph as well

Aaaargh! Nobody kept count?!

“ The full Jameela”

I used to love her, and would have loved this article (so brave to say it, yay women!) were it not for her complete silence on the biggest issue facing women this generation.
I actually wouldn't care if she came over full Jameela, that is a view (if IMO a stupid one ) but saying nothing as if nothing is going on is just spineless and cowardly.

I feel quite lost on this thread. I thought feminists were generally in agreement that being 'nice' and enjoying home making weren't a result of female biology. It's not menopause that makes us stop being 'nice' (I'm nowhere near it myself) it's realising we don't give a fuck any more.

Me too. Several things are making me angry at the moment. They are wholly logical things, like realising how much of a lie I was sold when I was told when young that things were almost equal now and would continue to get better. And now not only have things not got better, but men are demanding women’s rights and other men (and some truly stupid women) are rushing to comply.

But I’m pretty sure my earlier lack of rage was unrelated to hormones. I believe it’s because I was too busy being shafted to see it. That and it’s not me that’s changed, seeing things I’d missed before. It’s because the world is currently properly going to shit.

It’s the burden of family life, which mostly falls on women, that did that to me. So no, I’m not going to accept that my woman hormones made me compliant and stupid. She can fuck right off with that.

Does abydos have another share token? The Ops is timing out.

I'm another one who's been angry all the time (and told it's offputting and the reason I haven't done as well as I could have).

I don’t actually think there’s anything wrong with “Lite feminism “ if that’s how you want to brand her writing. She’s a columnist in a conservative ( small C) broadsheet - she has a great deal of reach. Anything too strident would just turn a lot of her audience off. I see it more as “ level entry” feminism perhaps, hopefully leading some readers to explore themes further but otherwise not frightening the conservative horses.

Holy shit this is amazing and so true!

I think the objection to the idea that women are influenced by their hormones (not “at the mercy of”) is linked to the idea that men are not - rational level headed men vs irrational moody women.

I think we can accept that hormones have an impact on both sexes’ moods and behaviour without supporting sexist ideas.

I don't think it's the menopause that causes the anger, it's due to being female for a long time.

I agree with this.

I"m late 40s, peri menopausal (I presume) and have not been on hormonal contraception except for a year or 2 at university. I don't feel my anger levels are hormone mediated, they are life/experience mediated.

I do notice a cyclical pattern to my emotions and I do get a bit insecure/emotional/highly strung for a few days before and at the start of my period, but it is minimal compared to my feeling on being an adult woman and 30 years of work, relationships, pregnancy, childbirth, male entitlement and now people trying to negate that experience of biological womanhood.

'Never say something once if you can say it in 5 slightly different oh-so-clever ways. Look at me. Have I mentioned drugs enough?'

Very true

It's socialisation + temperament + personality + biology, imo.

I mean, my reality - that my attitudes and energies have changed in hormonally mediated patterns - may not be true for all women. But it's been true for me.

Quite honestly, more information about this connection would have helped me be less of a freaking agreeable doormat at times. Is this me or is this oxytocin? would have been a helpful lens to have.

No hormonal contraception here; maybe that made the hormonal shifts more noticeable.

If we are discussing this woman’s hormonal goings-on (a bit personal but she brought it up) it would be helpful to know whether she has used hormonal contraception and for how much of her life.

I doubt the experience of women who have natural cycles (with ovulation and proper periods) is the same as that of women who take the combined pill (no ovulation and a withdrawal-bleed ‘period’) and I’m not convinced everyone realises there’s a massive difference, because ‘period’.

It wouldn’t be the least bit surprising to learn that synthetic hormones take the edge off a person. And how fucking convenient that would be for the menfolk.

All this women at the mercy of their hormones, bless, they can't help it.

Right? And the idea that we're just nicer and self sacrificing because nature. It's actually the opposite of feminism.

I have found many of her columns amusing, but I must be missing something here, as I didn't find that particularly insightful. In fact it seems very old fashioned and misogynistic. All this women at the mercy of their hormones, bless, they can't help it. And boy does she go on. Never say something once if you can say it in 5 slightly different oh-so-clever ways. Look at me. Have I mentioned drugs enough?
I feel angry cos I'm old and tired and old age means you've seen it all before and you care less what people think. Not sure hormones have much to do with it. But then I'm post-menopausal so have probably forgotten.

The Times would stand by her if she went GC which does make it annoying that she doesn’t. But I guess the books and films bit of her career would be trickier.

New book coming out in the autumn. I reserve my judgement til then. I really liked this article - though I’m not sure the anger is all hormones rather than just female social conditioning getting stripped away as you age - but I’ve been disappointed in her silence on gender wars and so it’s hard to like this as much as I might. Still somewhat hopeful but I don’t think she’ll ever dare to be unpopular.

Fair enough, I agree that it may not be relevant to her but it certainly touched a nerve with me. It didn’t pass me by that she has had a well paid and successful writing career and hasn’t found herself at 45 at the bottom of the food chain career wise. She just articulated what I have been thinking and feeling

I found her use of you're still trying to be proud of your decision etc , etc completely tone deaf. It resonates with you as I assume it's describing your situation but to apply it to her career seems to me show a lack of self- awareness.

I don't think it's the menopause that causes the anger, it's due to being female for a long time.

My perimenopause isn't making me angry, but sad and lonely. I give all day (to work and the dc) but get no support, companionship or love. I am angry, but only with xh who swanned off and is living the life of a carefree teenager, with no repercussions at all.

Actually it's not just him, I'm also angry with all the people who call me "lucky" because he has them for a couple of sleepovers a week. Yeah. Feel the luck

It's been really hard to differentiate between perimenopausal mood changes, knackered single mum mood changes, and broken heart mood changes. I just roll with it as best I can.

I'm 40, not perimenopausal yet, and found this a really interesting read. No idea though where shes coming from with this idea that anger is an older woman's game. I've always been furious, about loads of stuff, but with age I'm getting more confident about expressing it

Maybe it's just the age of the children rather than menopause. Looking after a 2 year old all day long is legit but picking up after a rude and entitled 14 year old something else entirely.

Jane Garvey, while interviewing Sally Hines on Womems Hour referred to her female listeners as spending years of their lives 'facilitating the lives of others' and it was a light bulb going off in the brain of 45 year old me. My whole bloody life at the moment - lockdown making it 10x worse - is facilitating the lives of everyone else in this house. It makes me rage even though theoretically I consented to it.

I've always been an angry bitch. I was hoping that menopause would make me nicer.