Caitlin Moran - a bit more interesting than usual today

I hit 40 and evolved into a rather cross 'I'm fed up with being little miss don't rock the boat.'

It was a mix of hormones and trying so hard for 30 years.

A heads-up to the younger women on here - be alert for perimenopause and getting suddenly angry in a way you weren't before (if you've always been angry, as you were but it might just get worse).

I'd absolutely no idea that perimenopause existed - I thought you hit menopause, your periods stopped and that was it, apart from a few hot flushes for a few months.

It was with the benefit of hindsight that when my periods did stop (I was 52 and they stopped suddenly never to return at all) and I Googled 'menopause', I discovered that I'd entered perimenopause some years previously and could track its advent and progress with the sudden RAGES that came out of absolutely nowhere.

I went from calm, collected, could cope with any old crap to Ms ANGRY at the drop of a hat.

So, yeah - Caitlin made sense to me.

Ifonlyus, I agree about 'mother's little helper'. I was thinking the same thing.

Adhd meds that should say

"I doubt the experience of women who have natural cycles (with ovulation and proper periods) is the same as that of women who take the combined pill (no ovulation and a withdrawal-bleed ‘period’) and I’m not convinced everyone realises there’s a massive difference, because ‘period’."

Yes to this ^^

I stopped the pill after having children. And used it on and off before that.

" She's not suggesting hormones make her angry. She's suggesting hormones kept her placid. As they abate she's becoming more aware of her anger."

Okay, I get that. I might have interpreted her point incorrectly but partly because it does not speak to my experience. But many of us were angry decades prior to perimenopause and she doesn't acknowledge that.

It's all very interesting and I am stillvmulling over my thoughts.

Gosh, talking about bcp taking the edge off sets me off thinking about the housewives on valiun 'mothers little helper' In also someone who has taken ADHD - diagnosed in my 40s. There are connections made about estrogen and adhd in females. And Menopause making adhd symptoms worse. All adhd meds do to me is 'takethe edge off', they quiet my thoughts. Perhaps I'd have been better off on bcp or hrt.

Slight tangent but I've no idea why her new column has been designed to cover two pages. Her writing is always great but these new columns need pruning. I really don't want to buy journalism by the foot.

Seeing this title will make Caitlin's day

She's not suggesting hormones make her angry. She's suggesting hormones kept her placid. As they abate she's becoming more aware of her anger.

I agree there are plenty of things for women to be angry about. Then there are hormones.

I know that the fluctuation in my hormones, and I’m a woman so in this females hormones, cause significant mood changes. These mood changes are linked to my menstrual cycle or the biological reality of being pregnant, child birth and miscarriage.
I’ve had breast cancer linked to high oestrogen levels-see being pregnant, child birth and miscarriage-that was a fun year...
I’m upset that I’m doing feminism wrong because I acknowledge I’ve it hormones.
I’m pretty sure some things DH dies or doesn’t do or has and hasn’t done are linked to Male hormones but Caitlin didn’t write about Peter Paphides. And it’s unlikely that Pete will ever write about being a man because he doesn’t need to, he’s just doing it. No dig there and I’ve not kept up with his writing as much as with hers so I’m happy to be proved wrong. Or just tell me I’m wrong, that happens a lot, I’ll believe it.
There is no shame in being a coward of doing the opposite would lose you your income, your kids their friends and potentially put your life at risk. And maybe she’s slowly changing her mind?

i spent a brief and unhappy 10 minutes on linked in recently, coming to the realisation that many of the men i trained with now have job titles that include the word 'director'. i do not. it made me feel left behind and angry.

but when i had kids and went part time i knew it would screw my career (although not to what extent). I didn't have the headspace to be the parent i wanted to be and work the way that gets you 'director' type jobs.

which is to say, maybe it was my hormones to some extent that made me made me prioritise other things over my career, but i don't think it's hormones or lack thereof that are making me angry now.

there's plenty for women to be angry about without putting it down to hormones

Completely agree. The ‘feeling of vague contempt’ grew in my xh to the point he’d roll his eyes whenever I spoke (I was doing everything as he wouldn’t do it, and apparently that’s unattractive) and there’s no coming back to love/respect from there

My point is, perhaps Caitlyn's life was very different from most people's. Big, loving, supportive family. No dull, restrictive 9-5 job. Perhaps she was able to choose when to do her best work and reschedule meetings of she felt a bit foggy - without even being conscious of it.

Okay, I've managed to read it. She makes to many generalisations based on her experience. I wouldn't like to guess how much hormones influence each individuals emotions and behaviours. We're all so different in that respect. If Caitlyn is only just feeling the influence of fluctuating hormones, that's very different to my experiences.

I had awful PMS after having children and miscarriages which caused me to be depressed. And in later years an awareness of where I was in my menstrual cycle and how that had an effect on my work - whether I could find the right words during a meeting or felt more foggy or felt on fire.

I don't feel like angry is a consequence of those hormones. Anger is an end product of many other feelings, irritation, frustration, tiredness, boredom, envy, stress, pain, anxiety, tension, chaos, isolation- not having ones needs met, not living authentically. All of those things are more prevalent in a womans life when she has children, or lives in poverty, lives without a support network. The nuclear family, or living alone is not really how human beings are supposed to live. If Its been living in a commune with the support of extended family and friends, in a more equal society which prioritises wellbeing and collaboration over profits and competition, when I had small children, I'd have been a lot less angry, I'm sure. Nowt to do with my hormones!!

At the same time, I am aware of their fluctuations, and their presence is not benign, and we have more to contend with than males in that respect. Yet, in spite of that, we manage not to go around killing and fighting people. If female hormones =kindness, let's give them to all!

'Beyond other PPs, it's not just that no one kept count, it's that others feel so entitled to that work that they didn't notice it or the effort it involved -'

I honestly dont think 'women's work' (childcare, housework, life admin) is even seen as 'work'by many men, its just what women are for'. I dont think they see it as having any value, or requiring much effort, just so long as its kept far away from them of course. In that respect at least, we have made zero progress at all

@PenguindreamsofDraco, I don’t think she’s been silent. I believe she’s said that TW are better women than women because they’ve had to earn it.

At best she’s been silent, and at worst she’s capitulated. Her entire contribution to the JKR debate was to retweet David Baddiel.

She’s a coward and she won’t get another penny from me until she uses her voice and platform to stand up for women.

It's highlighted at present by the impact of COVID19 on too many home lives where women have found themselves almost entirely responsible for the household, childcare, and education while WFH despite there being other adults in the house.

Yes - I wasn't relating at first so much as realising how many drugs I hadn't taken, but then she said this and I was on board:
"No one was keeping count. You can’t cash in any aspect of those thousands of hours in exchange for social status, increased job prospects, shares or early retirement – the things the men in your peer group are starting to enjoy."

OTOH, I've also been getting the suspicion lately that 'is it the menopause' is the midlife annoying equivalent to 'are you on your period'.

I do wonder how much of it is hormones and how much of it is just realising that you've been walked over. A friend of mine has transformed from lovely, sweet "be kind" lib fem into an angry radfem in the space of a year and a half. All of this down to a difficult birth followed by sleepless nights with limited help from her useless partner, realising she's being held back in her career and then four months of lockdown WFH with an 18 month old.

the idea that men are not - rational level headed men

I love how humans are so good at holding two contradictory views at the same time.

There's the view that men are rational and not affected by hormones like women are.

And there is the view that men are driven by their testosterone to complete with each other, in business, sexually etc.

Obviously the reality is complex.

Everyone's hormonal balance is slightly different, so we won't all relate to it.

I do though. Every bloody word.

I spent my middle years working for my community, running playgroups and campaigning for better facilities.
I hit peri and realised I was spending a lot of time and energy on things that benefitted everyone else. That actually a lot of the 'everyone else' were selfish time wasters who didn't deserve any of my time and effort.
I've spent the last six years trying to politely disentangle myself from it all.

When you have small children, the wider community is important because it takes a village to raise a child. As I aged out I lost interest in the wider community and my concerns became more home based and personal.

Later I realised it was all coinciding with hormonal shifts.