I am so, so tired

I'm sorry that you have been put in this awful position

It is all about consent. Women can say no to some or all men for any reason whatsoever. No need to justify or explain.

I suppose you can never tell who you'd be attracted to. Sometimes relationships form from friendships. BUT I would say if I was dated as a previous poster said I would discriminate based on my preferences for appearance, job / prospects, outlook. If straight people can say my ideal man or women is .. then anyone can say it. Crack on OP just rise above it.

Even though I know it's happening It still stuns me.
Men with their male bodies deliberately deceiving potential partners into going on dates with them.
That is all levels of wrong.

Sex and relationships are all about consent. It’s the fundamental bedrock of all of it.
What notyourhandmaiden and michelle have said is spot on. sexuality isn't inclusive, we all know that, nobody has any reason to expect it to be so: unless they are a person who sees others as deserving no agency about who they are intimate with.

That’s pretty much my definition of someone who is not emotionally or physically safe to be around.

If the ‘self identified gender has made biological sex irrelevant’ brigade were actually ‘inclusive’ themselves, then there would be no question of trying to guilt biological women into fucking biological men, because biological sex would be truly irrelevant and like anyone else, they’d just be seeking out a willing partner.

Yet, it’s uncanny how the men’s sexual entitlement coercers always seem to know who is a woman.

I think it’s terrible what has been done to same- sex attracted culture, to female single sex culture and to safeguarding and medical ethical culture by this sexist, homophobic political dogma. I hope you can find ways to connect with like minded women IRL and that you can find support for dealing this. This is not a pressure anyone should be subjected to.

If MtF lesbians with intact male genitalia really are discriminating against each other as potential sexual partners, aren't they themselves coming under the technical definitions of transphobe, bigot and even TERF?

My brain is overheating now.

They just don’t get it, do they?

Is there anything more dudely than demanding sex for self-validation?

And then these jokers try to pretend that they really are really real women. /endless laughter/

It's fucking lonely

I hear you, OP. The constant gaslighting by supposed 'allies' is utterly demoralising.

I've more or less given up dating altogether - it's hard enough to find a biologically female lesbian on dating sites these days anyway, and even then, the chances are they're not going to be a like mind (and finding out their views on feminism can often be a mission in itself).

And then, of course, although I like to think I can tell from the photos, there's always the occasional biologically male 'lesbian' who slips through the net. Obviously, they don't feel the need to say anything beforehand, because 'only a bigot would care'. I've found myself on dates with an arrogant, patronising classist prick, a male violence apologist and a narcissistic lady gaga wannabe. One had the courtesy to 'inform' me that they were trans 45 minutes into the date when it came up in conversation...like I didn't bloody know by then!

On top of wasting both parties' time, what really stung was the assumption that my having sex with someone with a penis was such a minor issue to them that it didn't even warrant discussion before the date. I guess their argument is that if I turn out to be a bigot, I deserve to waste my evening and feel intimidated and pressured.

Poor you OP, I really feel for you. My mum is gay and came out in the 1960s. We like to think things are better now for lesbians, but I think they're worse.

You're not alone though, there is tremendous support on Mumsnet. More and more people are being 'peak transed' and I firmly believe that all this nonsense will shortly be shown for the misogyny that it is.

Sorry OP I agree lesbians really are bearing the brunt of this.

Whenever I’ve tried to bring this up with people, they get that a man who identifies as a woman is not a lesbian BUT a transwoman is a lesbian because they’re a woman and it’s ok - because LGBTIQ.

OP.

Gaslighting grinds you down. It is indeed mentally exhausting.

I am so sorry you are caught up in this latest attack on Lesbians in the war on women.

It is amazing when you consider how many thousands of years men have tried and failed to abuse women into submission.

Sorry - meant to add - I'm so sorry @terrifiedlesbian for the treatment of you by people who should know better. So sorry. Chin up, love, though - there are women here who understand.

I'm absolutely exhausted, and have been called a TERF so many times now that even opening facebook or reddit or basically any article about sexuality or pride or anything remotely related, give me an instant stomach ache. I'm so fucking tired

Me too, OP - and I'm a straight older woman. I wonder if I'm just getting old & staid - I was a baby feminist in the late 1970s, and what passes for "woke" or "progressive" feminism seems so regressive to me. But I worry that I'm just increasingly averse to change.

Except then I read about experience like yours, and I think, No what is happening now is wrong.

Get a new therapist.

My 65+ year old male therapist has been working with me on systemic cycles of abuse for several years now (due to my shit show upbringing).

I spent our last session coming out as a GC feminist. His response? "Well this sounds exactly like patriarchy in action".

Honestly there is not some big woke conspiracy amongst therapists you just got a shit one.

OP.

I do wonder how many people are really on board with this and how many are just afraid not to be.

As others have said - gaslighting.

I'm so sorry, OP. As others have noted, this is about hypocrisy, and using vaguer labels to seem 'inclusive' even though in practice 'lesbian' might be more accurate.

But sexuality isn't inclusive. It is 'discriminatory', and that's OK. 'I don't want to sleep with you' is not the same as 'I will not hire you for a job you are qualified for'. Only people who grew up feeling entitled to sex with women would pull this shit.

I suppose one answer is to use all the silly language right back. Warmly appreciate someone being homogenderal, repeat that you're homosexual, and if they try being morally superior about their homogenderality and wish to evangelise and convert you, you can demand to know why they are kink shaming you.

Homophobia and males (sadly enabled by some females) who believe that females have no right to 'gatekeep their vaginas': a prettying up term for the good old pre recorded history belief that female bodies belong to males for the use of males, and females have no business refusing males sex.

OP you must be so tired of it all. It does seem like this ideology has spread like wildfire amongst lesbians, I suppose because the majority of transmen are in that community. The other day I saw a quote from a prominent woman in the "queer" community (whose name escapes me) talking about her choice to be in a "same gender" relationship. And I just thought, well homosexuality is officially over (at least for women! I very much doubt it's over for men!) We've arrived at peak insanity.

So true Michelleoftheresistance Older lesbians in the main are not easily gaslighted into this nonsense.
There's no easy answer OP - except to say that there are tens / hundreds of thousands of women out there who reject this ideology and centre women and other lesbians in their sexuality. You just have to find us all.

And I'll add here: whatever sex, sexuality and identity you name yourself as, if you're enjoying sleeping with or in love with someone, again regardless of sex, sexuality or identity and you're happy together, that is wonderful, I'm delighted for you both.

If, whatever sex, sexuality and identity you name yourself as, you are badgering someone for sex who you know is unwilling, trying to guilt them into sex, or implying that their body and sexuality is something you should enforce political control over..... you are an appallingly behaved person and not someone I want anything to do with.

I hear you OP. I'm exhausted and I have a DP who agrees with me. It's awful

would a trans 'lesbian' be called discriminatory for not wanting to sleep with another trans 'lesbian' with a penis?

If you read around, no. TW who identify as lesbians get a free pass in being able to select only biological females for their dating pool (somehow they can tell the difference although the ideology insists it isn't possible) as it is too 'triggering' for them otherwise.

Riley Dennis on YouTube, and the athlete Rachel McKinnon will be glad to explain to biologically female homosexuals however the need for them to 'learn to cope with' sex with biological males as a social duty. Enjoying sex apparently isn't for female people; their main job is to provide a body for use by their betters. Dennis will gladly permit you a short time to overcome your trauma if you've experienced sexual abuse, but requires that you work hard to get over it ASAP and re present yourself for service.

By which you see the very very misogynist maleness of it all, and the near psychopathy and dehumanising involved for males who have this appalling, distorted view of sex and females. Women's Aid and the relationships board here exist to help females run a fucking mile from any potential partner of any sex who behaves in this way.

Another homosexual female here OP and I hear you. I'm old enough to not care and I know no lesbian of my age group that doesn't laugh out loud at this crap.