"How the 'Karen Meme' Confronts the Violent History of White Womanhood"

@HeistSociety no one is saying you must tackle everything however, ignoring others issues and then when ‘you’ perpetuate the oppression of others and when ‘you’ are called out for it crying about the sisterhood is rather off. ‘You’ weren’t up for helping out another sister...

*dressed up BY the maid

I can barely tackle daily life, tbh.
I think there are some very unrealistic ideas about what all white women can achieve.

We're not all getting dressed up the maid and living in Downton Abbey.

Having said that, my donations the last few months have gone to Aboriginal and refugee causes, plus the food pantry.

I just don't think the dehumanisation of white women as a racist, privileged mass of Karen's is the path to justice for anyone.

I really hope to not put anyone’s nose out of joint here, but I notice feminism has a lexicon already for women that prop up patriarchy which is handmaiden. It doesn’t seem as immediately offensive as Karen and it often seems to prompt exploration and sensitivity to internalised misogyny.

My hope is that maybe it can be looked at in a similar vein here. I mean we all want to live in a society entirely free from racism and sexism, and we can tackle both simultaneously.

My meagre analysis is that it stems from the objectification of women, both as sex objects and as free labour, as such white patriarchy obviously places more inherent value on white women than black women. See the phenomenon of missing white girl syndrome, when young black women go missing we all just collectively give way less of a shit tragically.

I don’t know if this helps, but in my personal life and thanks to a hobby I pursue online through lockdown I have made some solid friendships with some African American women in Atlanta, and obviously when the murder of Ahmaud Arbery happened it kicked off some discussions about race. I must say my eyes have been opened wider on issues of race.

As with most things it’s Male violence that hang as a shadow over most problems in our society be they race, sex or even this contemporaneous trans debate.

I'm a carer; being able to get to feminist meetings is not something I'm able to do regularly.

Of the meetings I have been to, they were abortion law reform focused, and women of all ethnic backgrounds attended. One organiser was ex Muslim, another was white. I don't recognise the idea of feminists sitting around in a circle tossing around action ideas, and saying 'not that, too black'. Maybe because I don't have the freedom to be part of initiating committees, idk. I never feel particularly welcome as a non-important woman at these things, but when I get to actions, it's to be another body in support, so yeah. Not about my feelings, I guess, though I do think there's some classism in urban organised feminism.

I empathise with that, but when there are so many feminist meetings that I literally, physically cannot access, I have to personally prioritise emphasising disability provision within feminism. I cannot deal with everyone's problems.

Yes, this is also my experience.

BBC are right on board with 'Karen'. BBC sounds yesterday: '"How can white women not be Karens?"'.

twitter.com/BBCSounds/status/1279837698769825792

Unsurprisingly, quite a lot of people objected to this bullshit clip.

When challenged, Charlotte Lydia Riley says something about T**fs and explains that :

'The fact that there is not a male equivalent of the term “Karen” does not mean that “Karen” is misogynist, it means that it’s a label specifically describing the weaponisation of a particular type of white femininity, come on, this isn’t hard'

FYI, the answers to how women can 'not be Karens' is

1. 'Educate yourself'
2. 'Try not to be defensive'.
3. 'Don't be so loud'.
4. 'Basically, leave'

(I wish I was joking)

"Reni Eddo-Lodge goes into great detail how she felt in feminist meetings where her issues as a black woman were ignored due to white women not experiencing the same issues."

I empathise with that, but when there are so many feminist meetings that I literally, physically cannot access, I have to personally prioritise emphasising disability provision within feminism. I cannot deal with everyone's problems.

It's as meaningful and nuanced as "ok boomer". It's just an insult.

Well, if ‘Karen’ formerly had a different meaning in the UK than the US, it doesn’t any more.

Yes it does. It's not about racism for most people in the UK. The BBC repeats all this American idpol from Twitter as if it's gospel and equally applies here.

It's a way to put women down. And the original Karen meme was started by some sad bloke so that wasn't about racism either.

Can't we just stop using the Karen meme? Not that I ever have nor would I; I didn't realise it was becoming popular over here but it could be stopped in its tracks if people were a bit more thoughtful.

Some other word, not a person's name, could be used instead.

Well, if ‘Karen’ formerly had a different meaning in the UK than the US, it doesn’t any more.

twitter.com/bbcsounds/status/1279837698769825792?s=21

I’m off to go an read the comments on that tweet.... Should be entertaining.

I’m probably like many women; I cry when I’m really angry. I’ve been taught that anger is not appropriate for women; rage is not acceptable, shouting or banging things is unfeminine.

I wonder how much of those women’s tears are actually female rage?

It’s also worth noting that Robin DiAngelo, who wrote a best-selling book disparaging women and their supposed “fragility”, and who rakes in a lot of cash through her corporate “diversity training”, is a white woman.

I think I understand about the weaponisation of white woman's tears after reading that article. However, I'm going to risk sounding dismissive by saying it happens to white women too. Strategic tears work best (perhaps only work) when performed in front of a male audience. They need to be performed by the youngest, prettiest and yes, whitest damsel in distress in the room. It's a competition in feminine victimhood and I'm sure it's true that it happens to black women more. It's DARVO for manipulative women. I've certainly been on the receiving end of it myself. It doesn't always work and can often backfire as some people do see it for what it is and find it pretty annoying. It's certainly not employed by every woman and the times I have had it used against me were always by very stereotypically feminine women. Then again, maybe if I'd have been black, I'd have been further down the damsel hierarchy and had a larger range of women trying it against me. I haven't seen similar behaviour in men, but then, they often have other strategies at their disposal.

He's the most racist stereotyping pale and stale male that you are likely to meet - he's alf garnet on steroids, thankfully he lives in west Wales - a long way away and full of his type of people

I think that anything that casually stereotypes any person, on an individual level is lazy and unhelpful

Do you not see the irony of saying that anything that casually stereotypes any person on an individual level is lazy and unhelpful when placed beside your lazy stereotyping of the residents of north Wales?

I do totally agree that men are in general much worse in terms of the type of violence being discussed, but that's already been discussed ad infinitum and the focus here is on women.

Didn't mean to come across as goady as my posts read, but honestly it a little frustrating to see the amount of deflection going on when this type of behaviour is usually criticised on here.

For example, if somebody dares mention during a discussion about the pay gap that women outearn men until the age of 40 and that the gap is growing, they are accused of WATMing. But then when the focus is on white women, posters are incredibly to say WATM.

I think the focus here should be on the actions being described (e.g. of people like Amy Cooper etc) rather than endless quibbling about the meaning of 'Karen'.

@SoVeryLost I haven’t read it yet but why does she say they ignored her issues? I’ve heard others say that it is more that they don’t know what to say or do because they haven’t had her particular experiences and therefore can’t really relate and/or are afraid of being patronising. I don’t know if that’s just an excuse or whatever. I’ve noticed certain members of my husband’s (white) family don’t really know how to talk to me about certain issues so they don’t even try. They think they’re being polite so I don’t hold it against them.

Strategic tears.
Smh.

For those early on talking about divide and conquer, try reading why I’m not longer talking to white people about race. Reni Eddo-Lodge goes into great detail how she felt in feminist meetings where her issues as a black woman were ignored due to white women not experiencing the same issues. If you want to talk about a sisterhood, it needs to not only benefit you.

Given Australia is still in the Commonwealth, and dispossession of Aboriginal people directly related to British use of AU as a colony, studying the Stolen Generation makes a little more sense for a UK syllabus, than US specific history.

It isn’t simply that the U.K. is different from the US. It is that the US has been the dominant imperial force globally for the last seventy years. As such, it has an expectation that every other country should put the US experience, understanding and analysis of every issue front and centre. And in many countries, not doing so will be followed up with military and CIA action, interference in local democracies and broadcasting.

The US expectation that their ideologies should lead the world seems to transcend their culture wars and be pushed by both left and right, whether they are arguing for neoliberalism and the personhood of corporations or white fragility and the concept of privilege.

We do need to hear from other people and have more leadership from people with other experiences - like the children taken in Australia. This was on the U.K. curriculum but now people seem to be petitioning to have the curriculum replaced with more US stuff.

It's a real head scratcher HarryHarry

Theres a world of a difference between some horrible woman trying to manipulate the police to get a black man shot, and a middle age female customer you find annoying.
I mean come on.

In the first case, no police officer should allow themselves to be manipulated. A complete lack of training and their own racism leads them to the murder point. How often do you get a perfect storm like that, where everyones evil nature lines up just so.

In the second case, get some perspective memelords. Customers are bloody annoying that's the downside of a people facing role. That's my job and 20 people talk down to me every day. Its not in any way comparable- imagine trying to.make it the same thing. Quite despicable really.