"How the 'Karen Meme' Confronts the Violent History of White Womanhood"

The BBC deleted the tweet?

Gosh, I hope they weren't being defensive. Because that would be ironic.

You can call women Karens, t*s, bitches, witches, all you want. There's just too many of us to shut us all up, at the end of the day.

And now anyone reacting to it on Twitter is being labelled “Karen”.

Men don’t even have to bother being misogynist anymore, women are doing the job for them.

The BBC tweet appears to have been disappeared?

Just seen that BBC video. Women should be quiet and 'just leave'? What kind of Handmaid's Tale vibe is this?

'The fact that there is not a male equivalent of the term “Karen” does not mean that “Karen” is misogynist, it means that it’s a label specifically describing the weaponisation of a particular type of white femininity, come on, this isn’t hard'

In the UK "Charlotte" and "Amelia" could specifically describe the weaponisation of a particular kind of class privilege. Come on, this isn't hard.

Also I notice that the young white woman making the list seems to have no plans of shutting up and leaving herself. Young women rebelling against their mums isn't revolutionary, it's just adolescence, which currently seems to extend well into the 20s for those who aren't forced by circumstances to grow up and get a job.

If you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, by virtue of your sex and skin colour and NOT your actions, there is no role other than as willing puppet, punching bag, and scapegoat for the actions of white men.

As an abuse survivor, I'm not hanging around for that.

Of those 4 demands the first two might be reasonable in some contexts, but he last 2 deserve no response other than "nope, fuck off".

1. 'Educate yourself'
2. 'Try not to be defensive'.
3. 'Don't be so loud'.
4. 'Basically, leave'

That was indeed an offensive, women-silencing piece of shit broadcasting. I've 'basically left' and shall continue to focus my energies on feminism.

Why is the BBC trying to meme? That's just embarrassing. You are not cool, BBC, and being cool is not your job.

It’s funny how it’s white men who built the patriarchy, the capitalist systems that place black bodies at the bottom of the pile, amassed the worlds wealth by using those bodies, continue to protect and uphold those systems the world over. Yet when it comes to trial by twitter and the ‘woke’ vitriol it’s always, always women who get it and are made the example of. I don’t condone any of their actions, but I’ve seen far more criticism of these women than, say, the men who have murdered black people. But twitter is a cesspit of misogyny, so I’m not surprised. That article is a largely a load of toss

Yep - perfectly stated. I completely agree.

HarryHarry

I think part of the reason is that in the US most black people don't really know where in Africa their ancestors came from, and in fact it's probably a good mix. So it's not possible to be as specific as "Italian-American".

But there have been a fair number too who don't like the term for the exact reasons you say. I don't think you are really safer to use it rather than black - it's a coin flip if the person you are talking to will prefer one or the other.

There is no equivalent continent term for white Americans - we don’t say “European-American”, for example, just specific countries like “Italian-American” or “Irish-American”.

I'm British, but to me the reasons seem obvious. Plenty of Americans claim their ancestors arrived on the Mayflower. They have records to trace their ancestry, and the country their ancestors travelled from still exists.

If you think about the treatment of slaves and the history of Africa even after the slave trade ended, it becomes clear that, for horrifying reasons, it isn't possible for all Americans to trace their ancestry or claim a country of origin in the same way.

I think they do day Irish American and Italian American don't they?

Not a USA person but sure I have heard that.

Slightly off topic but are there any black Americans on this thread who can explain why people there seem to prefer to say “African American” instead of black? I always felt like it was negative because it’s like qualifying their Americanness, as if you’re not full Americans, you’re AFRICAN Americans. There is no equivalent continent term for white Americans - we don’t say “European-American”, for example, just specific countries like “Italian-American” or “Irish-American”. Also for many black Americans I imagine the connection to Africa is very very remote now. But I guess it could also be a way of honouring the memory of the enslaved people from whom you may have descended.

A black American friend told me that it was just “more polite” than saying “black”. Is it? How do you feel about it?

The problem stems from the wider objectification of women, because viewing women as objects confers an intrinsic value (this comes with a commensurate reduction of agency) both as sex objects and all the free labour women do. This leads to the unfortunate reality that women are sorted into categories of greater and lesser value, with black women being valued less. So I can see where the friction comes from, as some white women trying to navigate a system that only values them in specific narrow ways as opposed to full human beings, trying to snatch what agency and influence they can.

I am reminded of one of my friends who as a younger woman made her cheerleading squad (along with another African American student) at her high school. Two white mothers raised objections as their two white daughters were passed over, and unconsciously whilst they may not have been actively racists, and of course had no trouble with the idea of African American students on the team had a massive problem as they viewed these two girls as having taken their two girls “spots”. I think this is the sort of shit black women have to contend with that is so frustrating.

One of the white girls mothers was also responsible for providing the uniforms so obviously expected special treatment and it’s THIS sort of exercise of privilege that (both racial AND class/economic) that’s so pernicious and difficult to uproot.

It's West Wales (not North) where he and his cronies reside - they are English ex-expats and I haven't dissed the Welsh - do read my posts, or is English comprehension not your best subject?

I see, RoyalCorgi. There seem to be quite a few of these educated, well spoken white women who do a lot of hectoring and attacking of older, less privileged women. Odd, really. Maybe not.

But it's not always the same people. I think it's pretty significant that the pay gap kicks in later and should be part of any discussion around it.

TBH I find the discussion on women's issues is often a little frustrating because people don't want to be open about what the evidence suggests, or consider different possible interpretations - it seems like they are looking for a pre-ordained conclusion. Race discussions often (not always) seem a little more open to different possibilities.

It no longer surprises me that men enjoy exercising their misogyny. I still find it disheartening when women join in with it, presumably because they enjoy the thrill of male approval they get when they give a "Karen" a good kicking.

Yes, absolutely. It depresses me.

I just don't think the dehumanisation of white women as a racist, privileged mass of Karen's is the path to justice for anyone.

Yup. And of course it's not really about getting justice, is it? It's about enjoying the full licence to demonstrate your misogyny under the guise of being anti-racist - in much the same way that being pro-trans gives you the same licence. There's zero recognition of the fact that the majority of racial violence against black people is carried out by white men, and zero attempt to demonise white men in the same way.

It no longer surprises me that men enjoy exercising their misogyny. I still find it disheartening when women join in with it, presumably because they enjoy the thrill of male approval they get when they give a "Karen" a good kicking.

“These memes are actually doing logical and political work of helping us get to legal changes or legislative changes, which is really something to be said. While of course, they aren’t a standalone movement on their own, they actively call out white supremacy and call for restitution. They really do that work of highlighting and sort of commenting on the racial inequality in a way that mainstream news doesn’t capture.”

That would be great if the Karen slur wasn’t exclusively directed at one class of people. That’s why it’s a slur.

I really have no understanding of how it is possible to be an educated woman and a) be so utterly unthinkingly stupid and b) hate other women so much.

based af it's literally just another flavour of 'pipe down love' and young libfems are eating it up to 'combat racism'.

YY. How convenient that so much activism can focus on sneering at women.

The internet and celebrity culture have empowered US cultural imperialism to the extent that many British people genuinely think they live in the 51st state of the USA.

And most US commentators (as exemplified by some of the responses to Julie Bindel on twitter) have precisely zero self-awareness of their own ethnocentricity.