"How the 'Karen Meme' Confronts the Violent History of White Womanhood"

Who in many cases men are angry at for complete irrational reasons, and sometimes other women too, because internalized misogyny is a thing. Take the photo of a woman standing at what looks like a food service counter of some kind someone posted above. Why assume she's "waiting to speak to the manager"? Why not assume she's waiting to place her order, or collect it? It's just a cheap shot based on the person making it being annoyed that a woman they don't consider fuckable is existing in public.

Fair enough Binky!

I think the point is

There aren't really these types of names for men.

Women always have to be a type. For men at least. Because we are 2D. Karen, milf, ball breaker, feminazi, sexpot etc etc

We have to be in a box.

They get very confused (IME) when eg pretty blonde with tits is also feminazi. They don't like it. Get uncomfortable and sometimes angry. Confused.

This Karen is just one of those. 2d woman.

I think the answer, ironically, is imperialism. When you're the most powerful country in the world it's easy not to give a shit about anyone else's context, and to be offended by the idea that whatever shiny idea you may have might not really work in other countries.

Gammon isn't racist white men to my mind.
It's hyper privileged Tories

I thought it came about because of the "row of gammons" meme on Question Time - red-faced, angry, middle-aged Brexiteers attacking anyone lefty or anti-Brexit on the panel

Let's talk about that without these lazy inadequate shorthands

Well... posters were asking for a male equivalent of Karen and that's the only one that comes to mind

Yes, the great American flaw. Critiquing empire while exemplifying empire.

Hence the utter refusal to even consider that the word thug does not have racial undertones here.

Why does that happen do you think?

I had no problem accepting that word had a different subtext over there.

I feel like a lot of Americans (and I'm surrounded by them) genuinely struggle with the concept that they are not the center of the universe and their context is not universal. Bestie, DH, and I are all from different non-US cultures and all experience this on the regular. People get very offended when you point out that something they've just assumed was universal isn't.

Gammon isn't racist white men to my mind.

It's hyper privileged Tories.

I wouldn't call a NF type guy s gammon

I'd call him a dangerous violent racist bastard.

Let's talk about that without these lazy inadequate shorthands.

I know what hillbilly means, the Beverly hillbillies was on when I was young!

Redneck = dukes of hazzard?

I'm not American though.

Agree re cultural imperialism. Different thread probs.

I don't really feel much charity tbh. The impulse to adopt American politics and culture as if the world is one big reflection of the US is regressive. It's imperialist thinking - ironically.

For anyone British who might not know "redneck", "hillbilly" and so on have very overt classist implications. I get the distinct impression that "Karen" is not meant to refer to a woman from the same class, so nope, those don't work as equivalents.

Well, that was the most charitable explanation I could come up with! There are other less charitable interpretations.

In the UK racist white men are called Gammons. Dunno about America

Lol, true.

I'm not British, but I lived in the UK for a few years, and it's very clear to me that Mumsnet is NOT American!

Or even reading it for 5 mins

It doesn't take much research to find out Mumsnet is based in the UK.

I think they do.

On the other thread re use of 'thug'.

Everyone was saying, it has no racist connotations in the UK, this is a UK website etc

And were still told to stop using it.

The sort of way that some USA people seem to not understand that their history, language usage, etc etc is not applicable to all English speaking nations is probably a different thread. But it's really annoying.

The "what about the Shaniqa meme" comment makes me wonder if some posters don't realize that the majority of this board is UK based people.

Debating 'Karen' rather than debating the actual issue, is an issue in itself, I'd have thought.

If anyone wants to discuss racism in the UK we could try that.

Phoenix so racist men do direct violence and racist women do indirect violence.

This does not explain why the focus is on women. Or why all women of a certain age/ class/ postcode/ whatever the fuck it is have to be called Karen which is a lot of women's actual name...

Thank you goosefoot I know that

'The male equivalent of Karen is Ken and usually they’re called rednecks, hillbillies, or racist a-holes.'

But we're in the UK!

We don't have rednecks or hillbillies!

Ken makes me think of Barbie's chap, or an elderly relative called that.

Please can we talk about the issues without resorting to these things that do not make sense to any of us in the UK!

There are no Ken memes spilling out from the US to be gleefully seized on by the woke. I don't wonder why - I know why. Women make a better, easier, safer and more psychologically satisfying target.

Rejecting dumb, sexist USian meme culture is not inconsistent with acknowledging racism.

For me it was the lanyard that made it clear cut @Goosefoot