Found on a blog about Netflix’s Disclosure

Breakfast on Pluto with Cillian Murphy is supposed to be a good representation of transwomen I think, but I’ve never seen it. People tell me Hedwig and the Angry Inch is good but again I can’t comment.

Sorry this probably isn’t interesting to anyone but me 😂

I used to frequent a gay horror site called Camp Blood, be interesting to see how they deal with trans characters as there’s some language used there would probably cause a ban here!

I seem to recall an episode of Wire In The Blood where a trans character was murdering gay men for reasons.

The Mermaids Singing. That was grim!

MASSIVE SPOILER FOR DRESSED TO KILL
(In case anyone wants to watch it)
From Wiki

“Elliott is arrested and placed in an insane asylum. Dr. Levy explains later to Liz that Elliott wanted to be a woman, but his male side would not allow him to go through with the operation. Whenever a woman sexually aroused Elliott, Bobbi, representing the unstable, female side of the doctor's personality, became threatened to the point that it finally became murderous. When Dr. Levy realized this through his last conversation with Elliott, he called the police on the spot, who then, with his help, did their duty.“

That’s just a mess on so many fronts. (Can you tell I’m not a DePalma fan?)

I think that depends on wether their trans status is what has driven them to murder.

I seem to recall an episode of Wire In The Blood where a trans character was murdering gay men for reasons.

Nothing wrong with a trans murderer as such but it’s lazy Hollywood stereotyping (see representations of those with MH problems too). But that’s Hollywood.

A trans character being a murderer in a film is an unsympathetic portrayal rather than transphobic per se.

Whatsnewpussyhat- now you’ve made me feel old! 😂

What's the point in banging on about old films though. Many things used to be acceptable that aren't now.
Silence of the Lambs was written over 30 years ago ffs.

So from now on is there to be no films/books where a trans character is anything other than a hero?

The only thing that remains constant is misogyny.

And had he not been murdered it’s very unlikely there would’ve been a film about him.

If Brandon Teena had ridden off into the sunset at the end of Boys Don’t Cry that would have been a kick in the teeth to the real Brandon. He was murdered for being trans!

I think Silence of the Lambs is transphobic. The claim that he's not trans is weak, contextually. It's a figleaf to say, "he's not trans at all..." when it's also said that he asserts/thinks that he is, and he literally makes a woman suit from dead women to try to be one. I mean, it's a really good film, but in retrospect it's hardly great representation. And that was back in the day, when old-school transsexuals were rare and hadn't the legal protections anyone under the ever-expanding trans umbrella does today.

Never seen Ace Ventura and have no desire to do so. I do know what they mean about trans person as victim in Boys Don't Cry though - I remember my cousin acidly commenting that lesbians on TV always ended up dying, in the 1990s! If representation is tragic and focused on the identity rather than the character then I can see why that winds people up. Same problem as the way, when I was a kid, that any Indian sub-Continent characters had arranged marriage storylines as a matter of course.

The appropriation makes me roll my eyes, though. Yet again, women are in the wrong.

British people's main impression of transwomen is Hayley Cropper from Corrie, who couldn't have been more positive as a portrayal. Near saintly character, in fact. So I'm not sure the argument works here.

Yes I'd say classic example of Blanchard's typology (how Bill is described psychologically, not being a serial killer, obviously). Would absolutely be under the trans umbrella according to Stonewall.

Sunset Beech- yes, Buffalo Bill is described as being turned down for reassignment surgery (iirc) but would he be under the Stonewall umbrella these days? I think yes.

Ace Ventura is genuinely trans/homophobic. It’s a revolting film.

I can’t read the article at the moment but yes, trans people have been portrayed very negatively in movies over the years (unlike women - sarcastic eye roll). It is fair to call that out. DePalma’s Dressed To Kill depicts a trans/cross dresser as a psychotic killer which at the time was such an easy target. Of course DePalma isn’t great about women either, so...
The World According To Garp has a sympathetic trans character played by John Lithgow.

It’s very tricky to get into the whole Psycho/Deranged/Texas Chainsaw Massacre/Silence of the Lambs as they are all (at least loosely) based on Ed Gein - a man who murdered women, dug up women’s corpses and tried to make a “woman suit” out of their flayed skin. He also wore their faces as masks. Strangely no one seems to be posthumously trans him.

But I thought the mantra was TWAW. If that's true women can't appropriate women.

The accusations against Madonna I'm guessing are to do with the concept of Vogueing which she took from NYC ballroom culture in the 80s/early 90s and made mainstream and popular.

Really if anything it's more gay appropriation as the majority of dancers were gay men. There's a Netflix doc tracking the lives of the men she took on tour with her as dancers.

Kardashian I think must be to do with style of dress/make up/surgery. I also dispute this because the recent trend with young women for contouring, caterpillar brows and generally very OTT make up has been popularised as drag hit mainstream with shows like drag race. So again really it comes from largely gay male culture.

I'm surprised they complain about this because honestly it works in their favour. When the drag queen/Kardashian look falls out of favour for young women - and it will because all trends pass it's going to be harder for a lot of TW to blend in. Heavy make up (online at least) provides a lot of camouflage.

Wow. Ace Ventura sounds worse than I could ever have imagined.

You cant expect these things to be logical and fair, DuDuDu , come on now!

I have been meaning to watch this as a transwoman I am acquainted with (via their dad ) is in it.

I’m sure some of it will be totally legitimate criticism (as in the horrible Crocodile Dundee scene described above) and some will be a massive overstretch (saying that male actors playing transwomen characters contributes to the supposedly extremely high trans murder rate - a clip I’ve seen on Facebook).

www.facebook.com/netflixus/videos/585113292147850/?

Anyway, if TWAW how can it be possible for W appropriate TW?
It’s incoherent, they cannot logistically both be true.
I can see how the same appropriation argument could be made
re: women and drag queens (but drag culture a) shouldn’t be considered sacred enough to be off limits for appropriation and b) drag appropriates from women anyway so it’s cyclical appropriation 🙃

How have Madonna and Kim Kardashian 'culturally appropriated transwomen'? What a load of bollocks.

Also, I think it's very telling that they choose to focus on the 'cultural appropriation' by those awful 'straight cis women', when the vast majority of transphobia in TV and film has come from men.

Crocodile Dundee has a horrible scene where he sexually assaults a transwoman and everyone laughs. I hated that scene so much when I saw it.

However accusing women of 'appropriation' of men who are pretending to be women, is ridiculous!

Yeah Ace Ventura is pretty transphobic to be fair - although Jim Carrey's character does react in the way most men would I think (because toxic masculinity means that a straight man kissing another man is like the worst thing eveeeerrrrrrrrr!).

I always hated the way the shower scene took the piss out of rape victims as well.

And the film takes the piss out of people with psychiatric problems as well.

It's a terrible film really isn't it?!

Oh they can fuck off accusing women of appropriation.

well, that was my first thought, but I’m not too smart, so thought I’d maybe read it wrong.

Oh they can fuck off accusing women of appropriation.

Ace Ventura is very transphobic and cruel so fully deserves any criticism it gets in that score.

I think when it comes to the cultural appropriation of trans women by the Kardashians then that may have been the other way round.

Ace Ventura has a long scene when the “hero” is very transphobic. The transwoman also turns out to be the villain.
No apologies For the spoiler because I don’t recommend the movie!

By the way does anyone remember that Bechdel test? A ridiculously low threshold. Ace Ventura does have two named women talking in one scene, but it’s about “Pet detective” Ace. That’s the best this movie can offer for the Bechdel test...
Incidentally I tried to fact check that Bechdel result. it took ages because google kept telling me about the transphobia, wouldn’t let me find hits about the misogyny...