Can white women be allies to BME women?

For sure there are white people, including white women who spend lots of time talking about the issues they have with the principles of the Black Lives Matter organisation. It’s just a cover to maintain the status quo. They could instead support other initiatives to improve equality in society rather than blathering on about what they don’t like about Black Lives Matter.

OP can you tell me more? I'm white, I'm a feminist, and it never crossed my mind not to be an ally of BME women. Just look at the stats on maternity outcomes for black women. I feel like women in general are dismissed by medics often, therefore black women are going to be worst affected because they will be affected by both structural sexism and structural racism.
Probably my friendship group is a bit of an echo chamber though - so I'd like to know: a) what your experiences are of white women dismissing black women's experience
b) what white feminist allies can do about it?
Both genuine questions.

It feels like while women want black women to prioritize their sex over their race as an identity and seem incapable of accepting that BME women have multiple identities. And they often do not behave as allies insisting that their experiences of sexism mean that they can’t be racist (untrue) or that because women are 50% of the population then women’s issues should supersede ethnic minority issues.

Perhaps this is a mindset prevalent in some places online but not as widespread in real life. When talking about Black Lives Matter among the women I know, there has been no mention of sex vs race, just shared outrage and horror of what BME people often face and what they can do to help. But I think we talk more about Black Lives Matter as a mindset rather than the organisation itself, which might make a difference.

My feminism centres women full stop.

Those worst affected by the effects of a male centred society are disproportionately represented in BAME communities.

I will continue to campaign against violence and rape and for better healthcare and education. For all women.

I treat Transwomen with respect and dignity, but I don't believe they are women.

As an aside, all of the Transwomen I have ever met have been white. The epitome of make white privilege.

Mm. To me it sounds as though people are signing up to aggressively tackling racism and misogyny, and believe ‘BLM’ as an entity is problematic in one or other of those regards. But fortunately, it’s possible to disagree. I prefer considering all mandates of an organization, and thinking critically.
Some of the BLM tenets are problematic.
BLM doesn’t get a pass because BLM. Hence some black feminists distancing themselves.
Are they allowed to? Or is it just white feminists who distance themselves that you have a problem with?

OP, I think it is a mistake to expect anything from white women. Mumsnet is very strongly dismissive of racism/prejudice/unconscious bias existing to any significant degree in British society, especially middle class British society.

White women will support black women when black women promote the interests of white women - see the Allison Bailey case. There is a lot of heartfelt support for Allison Bailey but I get the sense it’s because she’s saying the right things. And comments on that thread allude to Allison Bailey having the right sort of profile, what with her being black and a lesbian. Like posters think being black or lesbian or even better, both, means you get listened to and get preferential treatment, at least in the media. Almost like people really think being white and heterosexual is a great disadvantage nowadays.

OP it’s not that I don’t support BAME or BLM. It’s just there is not much I can do in my everyday life. I don’t have any hiring or economic power myself.

The only thing I can do is argue against people who say ALM and call out racism when I see it. But in my circles it’s either non existent or very covert so not easy to argue against.

BLM is to TRAs what LGBT+ is: something to join, make the right noises about and then ultimately centre themselves in. I personally think black people should therefore be very wary of them.

...That is separate to my belief that black lives matter and racism must be resisted by all of us.

Agree with all of this.

@Quillink so the main issues of BLM which relate to police violence and systemic racism must be put aside because of some of the group’s views on sex and gender?

Where did I say that? It's not either or. I can support many of their aims whilst not supporting the organisation itself because it denigrates women. Like the Labour Party, Green Party and all the rest.

To me that’s asking BAME women to choose and it feels deeply unfair.

BAME women should choose what they wish. It's none of my business and nor do they need my advice or permission.

But people are claiming if you even use the phrase “black lives matter” you’re signing onto anti-women rhetoric.

That's obviously silly. But I can see why people might want to distance themselves from the misogynist elements of BLM (the organisation's) manifesto. Even while supporting their core aims in principle.

I strongly believe that there are some white women who are allies with the black ladies. We do stand up and lets just look at what's been happening lately. There have been so many white people especially women with their faces in tears, standing up for black lives matters at the protests. I have seen white women making amazing speeches in regards to what is happening now and what's happened years ago.
Yes, black people have suffered at the hands of white for donkey years. It kills my heart. It kills me and it makes me so sad and angry. I can't even watch certain stories on news, certain history books, movies or TV shows on slavery etc because it deeply affects me
My husband is from west africa and even he gets upset when we discuss it and teach it to our eldest children.
I've taught myself more about it because unfortunately the schools here only teach small parts, of what they want. I love learning about african cultures and history. And I am proud to say as a white woman, black history is my history.

But people are claiming if you even use the phrase “black lives matter” you’re signing onto anti-women rhetoric.

Who is claiming that? I've seen/heard some people say they don't support BLM because of X or Y. Some footballers were in the press yesterday saying this. However I've not seen anyone who does support it be accused of being anti women.

I think your comment above should say how SOME white women are behaving. Not all. Dont tar us all with the same brush. I'm a white women and I stand up with all my black sisters in whatever they face!

My initial reaction is that I don’t really recognise this. Of course there is racism in feminism because racism is systemic and everywhere, but the characterisation of feminists as people who don’t accepts that racism is an issue they should care about and don’t acknowledge that there are different axes of privilege and that white women experience white privilege is not something I’ve really seen. Some of the responses on here have been quite eye opening though - especially the one who claimed that the idea of white privilege is racist?! It’s hard to believe that that person is an active feminist, as everyone who has advocated for women’s rights has heard the old nonsense about how focusing on women is sexist.

I don’t think the quote from another thread about BLM says what the poster is claiming it says, though. The poster in that quote has many varied issues that make her feel BLM is not a movement that represents her views, it’s way more complex than sex v race.

OP is over in AIBU saying 'the trans community supports black women more than white women do' FYI.

Odd, because the transactivist argument that TWAW because black women are women is one of the more racist things I've heard.

@madwoman1ntheattic that article resonates with some of the issues I have. How many big companies were tweeting & # BLM whilst simultaneously having a higher % of BAME in lower paid jobs as opposed to management. What % of their BAME workforce is on zero hours?How many were doing jobs that exposed them to Covid but were not provided with PPE?

I have seen many posts on MN saying not to support BLM because it’s pro trans which is anti-woman.

blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

I can't support the organisation because I find 'cis' deeply offensive, the centering of trans issues odd (how does that help black people?) and the dismantling of the nuclear family unnecessary (again, how does this help black people?).

That is separate to my belief that black lives matter and racism must be resisted by all of us.

I think one of the reasons society is so disjointed us because we have this "for" or "against" culture, which leads to cancel culture, but it is OK to take a nuanced view.

I find this current thinking so divisive & unhelpful. There's little room for grey areas. There's lots of past debates and threads on MNs that has changed my opinions on things or made me consider a different viewpoint. Now I find if I express a certain view i'm accused of derailing as above. On a thread about social media posting for BLMs I was accused of strawman for stating if we really cared about BLM we would have a debate about drug use acceptance & leniency amongst the middle classes.

White feminism doesn’t work for BAME women which is why it is being rejected as a joke across the middle east /asia / africa.

my personal experience is that in university and the workplace, the womens/feminist networks are very white oriented, and the BAME networks are very male oriented.

I completely see this. Food for thought. I’m sorry so many posters are being defensive and not listening. Tell me more.

helenlewis.substack.com/p/the-bluestocking-woke-capitalism
Have a read op. I’m interested as to your reading, particularly regarding the efficacy of slogans over tangible economical reform.