Can white women be allies to BME women?

Mumsnet really is not a safe space for black women to talk about their experiences

Tbh at times it’s not a safe space for anyone now the site has got so big.

The daily fail has brought over all sorts of idiots

Feminism is a very broad church and people can support women's rights without agreeing to a specific political angle.

I agree with you Nonny and how that plays out is partly what makes it so interesting (and frustrating sometimes) and what that means for different groups of women.

Not to derail my own thread but...since when has capitalism been so great for women or blacks people? Didn’t realise the feminism sub on MN is so pro-market.

Mumsnet is a company funded by advertising that allows people to exchange information. Its entire existence depends on traditional free market entrepreneurship.

Do you think maybe it takes "extreme" movements to open doors? I am aware of issues with BLM, same as with metoo, same as with Extinction Rebellion, but I wonder if they're like a battering ram opening a door and maybe that's what's needed to enact change? But then I think back to the "collateral damage" which are usually just normal people trying to get on with their lives and I can't support that. Then I think of battles that have been going on for a long time, with people trying to fight their corner using the "correct channels" and getting no response at all and just how frustrating and disheartening that is. People need to be heard without having to resort to extreme measures but sometimes they're just not and I don't know how we change that.

😆

I thought you were an investment banker @missyoumuch. Surely you're a massive fan of capitalism?

missyoumuch

I think you need to Bob over to this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3950877-Allison-Bailey-to-sue-Stonewall

Alison Bailey is an incredibly brave black lesbian women who is receiving astounding support on here as well as twitter.

If you hang around long enough on the fem boards you will start to see prominent black women who are actually very prominent with in the women’s rights fights.

It's always worth listening to a diverse range of voices on these topics.

unherd.com/2020/06/minority-women-can-think-for-themselves/

youtu.be/TuAd_IAkOl4 - highly recommend this one!

youtu.be/mT2rlJe9cuU

youtu.be/rzOApVTfT48

To add- I think this kind of pie in the sky thinking is why so many working class people distrust Labour. Its full of idealists who talk about revolution because they dreamt about it when at private school. The women I know, of all races, want to hear about tangible fixes for tomorrow, not how we work towards a perfect future.

On the BAME terminology, I fall into the category and dislike the grouping as "everyone not indigenous white" which seems to imply the racism they face is the same.
I am not black and in fact to most people I would probably be mistaken for someone of Spanish/Mediterranean descent. Living in London I can probably count on one hand the racist incidents I have faced, and that is definitely not the experience of most black women.
The racism experienced by different groups within BAME has different focuses, but primarily it is an othering Vs white and to that extent this labelling doesn't seem helpful.
In terms of representation I work in the city and my direct team has fewer white women than BAME women, but no black women (or men!). So for our organisation it can tick boxes and say BAME representation is fine, but that's not an accurate portrayal and doesn't help confront the structural issues. However most of it happens even before hiring. Similar to what verybritishproblems highlighted, we don't even get the candidates, so we can't hire them.

Feminism is a very broad church and people can support women's rights without agreeing to a specific political angle. We have quite a few women here who are politically on the right or centrist and have very interesting perspectives and opinions. It's why I enjoy this board because it includes women from all backgrounds and they don't always agree with one another. Makes for much balanced and nuanced discussions.

missyoumuch

I can. Not now. I have wifework to go and do.

Not to derail my own thread but...since when has capitalism been so great for women or blacks people? Didn’t realise the feminism sub on MN is so pro-market.

I'm wc and the only people I hear talking about abolishing capitalism are mc people who dont know what it's like to have no food for tomorrow and who have enough resources to think you can wipe out a system and have anarchy and things will be fine. Its naivety and ignorance at how bad things can get. Does anyone realistically think that getting rid of capitalism will mean the billionaires will give up the resources they're hoarding? Of course not- it will just mean those of us with no power (especially physically so women) will be even more at the mercy of the charity of the powerful.

OvaHere

I don't feel like I have much in the way of power to effect structural change - I'm a SAHM and carer at the moment. The only thing I can think of in practical terms is to try and encourage black women to join our real life feminist group to gain wider perspectives. Currently the group is (mostly) white and asian.

I'm not the same as you, but this is a very good suggestion. Women meeting up in person away from men (as well as online) is a very good idea.

Things 'get done'. Women all all hues n creeds find they have more in common than not.

There's always food involved. This is all a good thing

@Bluebooby I agree with a lot of your points.

"defunding the police" is supposed to mean increase funding for 'civilian' organisations like social services, to ensure that root causes of social problems are tackled and, particularly in America, the first person to be called to a situation isn't someone with a gun.

However, a slogan that requires 40 words of explanation, probably isn't a good slogan.

I suspect in some areas people don’t appreciate how ‘white’ the uk is. The white Indigenous population is still by far the vast majority of the country. So people may complain about under-representation of BAME on, for example, the BBC when they are proportionately represented for the country as a whole because it doesn’t chime with their community. Of course that doesn’t help if you are a young BAME girl looking for a role model.

Kazza2867

Mumsnet really is not a safe space for black women to talk about their experiences.

This is absolute Billy bullshit actually.