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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Just "came out" (as GC) to two friends...

69 replies

bluechameleon · 01/07/2020 23:37

I didn't bring the subject up but when it did come up I went with it. Neither were particularly well informed on the subject but both seemed receptive to the GC POV. I was slightly concerned about Friend1 (gay male) but he was pretty supportive. They did comment on how much I knew about it so I think they thought I was slightly weird, but I feel generally it was positive and I did some good work furthering the cause. Are you all "out" to your friends?

OP posts:
sangrias · 02/07/2020 21:47

I am not out. At all. But i'm not confident in arguing a point with anyone, I don't think I would remember all the facts etc at the time of discussion. But on Mumsnet when I read about GC I agree. And reading JKR's piece I agree. I just wish I could retain the information better 😂

At work I could never be 'out' because we have a transwoman in the department, who is very nice, i'd never want to create an uncomfortable situation for her or with her. She is relaxed, doesn't seem to be one of these activists types. Just another colleague trying to get on with her day.

7Days · 02/07/2020 21:35

My mum was of the be kind persuasion, believing tw were all of the Hayley Cropper type.
Which is a totally legit pov btw! Ordinary decent people, trans or not, are owed respect and courtesy.

But the whole JKR thing brought it home to her that the Choke On My Ladydick contingent will also be in the changing room when her preteen GDs are changing out of their swimsuits. And she doesnt think it right that me saying that on sm could threaten my job.

My mum, early 60s now, was an unmarried mother in Ireland in the 80s - not at all a comfortable place to be. She understands discrimination, and voicelessness. That's where she is coming from when she stands up for trans rights.

But at the same time she remembers the authority of the adherents to the Church. Not the church itself as such. But the vocal adherents which were much more proximate to her. Despite their own private opinions the denunciations were public. People had to walk in step. The ordinary person could privately recognise, the nuns were often cruel, the priests often predators, you can understand a boy and girl falling in love, but out loud they would say of women in my mothers' position The Little Hussy Brought It On Herself.

It's the mufflement and unspokenness that resonates with mum now. You cant have an ideology which puts itself beyond criticism, where the critics are ostracized.

Beamur · 02/07/2020 21:35

Btw, none of my friends, GC or otherwise have said anything rude, dismissive or unkind about a trans person. They might be pro-women, but they're not anti- trans.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 02/07/2020 21:20

ShinyFootball JB had slipped off the radar. Almost.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 02/07/2020 21:10

Whenever I have brought it up in conversation pretty much everyone has been relieved to finally have the opportunity to discuss out loud!

One person deleted me from Facebook and another has been thoroughly stonewalled at work but everyone else has been aghast at the madness but worried about bringing it up themselves.

sadly one is involved in transing a child without the parents involvement at my kids school :-(

This person needs to reevaluate their actions - the ‘tool kits’ that advised this are now being withdrawn up and down the country because they (unsurprisingly) misrepresented the law. Your friend is breaking international human rights law, according to Baroness Nicholson!

Maerchentante · 02/07/2020 21:02

I found out through Twitter that a friend is GC as well, which is helpful. My sister asked "what is that whole JKR" thing about, so I explained and her response was "Have they all lost their mind, attacking a woman for stating facts?" So I explained a little more.
I also spoke to someone I volunteer with, but it was a bit "hush hush", as the organisation has quite a few woke people in charge of the volunteers.

On the other hand, I know someone who immediately piled on and wrote "f ts" on her FB page. She's someone who is very entrenched and would not accept a different opinion. I've muted her since.

highame · 02/07/2020 20:57

I don't know that 'coming out' is right to use. It's very depressing that people are feeling so intimidated. I felt as though I would be classed as trans-phobic but having a bit of a mouth on me, it was hard for me not to bring up the subject in my art group. All GC what a relief but interesting that they also had felt intimidated.

Goldencurtain · 02/07/2020 20:47

Ha! It's funny to read about feeling a bit embarrassed about knowing so much, I do too. When you talk about it for the first time what are the key points you find most useful to stick to? At the moment I think I'm just so fucked off about it I end up a bit ranty.

HarryHarry · 02/07/2020 20:40

My husband has tried explaining what’s happening to his family but because, like most of the general public, they don’t know much about it (they think “trans” means people with gender dysphoria or old-fashioned transsexuals) and because there’s so much to get through and because he gets himself so worked up about it, they just look at him like he’s a flat earther or an antivaxxer. I keep trying to tell him that ranting at them is not going to persuade anybody but he feels very strongly about it!

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 02/07/2020 20:25

I’ve shared a few articles (mainly around sports) on FB, mostly to tumbleweed, apart from one or two supportive comments. I’ve been spending a bit of time with two friends lately and we’ve got to chatting and they both share my GC views which is a huge relief!!

I’m sure that anyone who doesn’t do Twitter or Mumsnet won’t even realise it’s a thing. I don’t think either of them are Mners but one especially is a Twitter user and follows some GC accounts. It’s great to be able to talk freely about it all without having to censor ourselves. It feels a bit Handmaids Tale though.

Billi77 · 02/07/2020 20:21

I have about 3 GC friends, that I know of. Most of my friends support trans rights. A couple are trans rights activists who abhor the aggressive language and threats being used. All are supportive of women.

Madhairday · 02/07/2020 18:32

I am 'out' to a few friends and my family. My real struggle at the moment is with DD who was totally GC and then went to uni and came back having drunk the kool aid to an extent that shocked me after her being so sensible and sure about it all. I no longer know how to talk about it to her and feel really sad that we couldn't even talk about JKR, she's got pretty entrenched in her position in a very short time. It's like watching her be brainwashed - really frightening. She's such a bright girl too and incredibly compassionate, and I think that's where this all stems from. It's like she closes her ears and quotes the ideology we used to discuss together eg suicide stats and won't consider the other position. I'm honestly utterly taken aback and would love any advice. At the moment I'm keeping out of it with her as don't want to srgue.
16 year old DS agrees with me and they did have a blazing argument about sex being binary the other night.

Help!

ShinyFootball · 02/07/2020 18:25

Anyone know what happened with Jess Bradley?

Beamur · 02/07/2020 18:19

I'm pretty 'out' which seems a really weird way to describe it, but I know what you mean.
Most of my friends have similar views and even those that aren't quite the same we have sufficient common ground to not fall out (I hope).
I guess I am fairly open with my views because this is what they generally have always been! It's been a shock to see the silencing of women for daring to stand up for biological reality.
I'm not interested in winning arguments or falling out with friends over this. It is incredibly important though for lots of reasons, so I will talk if it comes up. Although would agree it's an unsuitable topic with wine...I had a splutter at a meal with friends when one chap came out with 'someone is a woman if they say they are' but decided not to pursue it.
I'm probably better informed on some parts of this than some, but I have a teenage daughter and I worry that she or her friends are vulnerable to gender ideology and I'd like them to get through puberty as unscathed as possible. If a mature adult chooses the pathway to transition, then that is their choice but I don't think kids should be medicated or operated on.

bluechameleon · 02/07/2020 17:51

Glad to hear so many others are also discussing it. I've discussed with family but not friends up until now. I should be more vocal about what I believe in.

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ScrimpshawTheSecond · 02/07/2020 12:32

I'm out to my whole family and most friends know that I'm gc, or at least suspect me of being a rabid feminist.

Let's face it, if you call yourself a feminist or talk about women's issues, the hardcore TRAs will have you down as a T* anyway.

TheShoesa · 02/07/2020 12:31

Alcohol is not a good starting point for the discussing.

I saw the most awful, aggressive behaviour from an (ex) friend of mine over this issue after a few drinks. I had not seen that side of him before and he was all 'what about the men?' and 'you women wanted equality, so you've brought it on yourselves'. I'd never realized what an unpleasant misogynist he was until then, but lots suddenly became clear.

gardenbird48 · 02/07/2020 12:21

I discovered that wine doesn’t help when you’re unexpectedly talking to the fully Tw aws - a horrible evening of shouting and tears of frustration (mine) and I doubt we’ll ever speak of it again.... sadly one is involved in transing a child without the parents involvement at my kids school :-( Just trying to work out how to find out which organisation the school is getting their pshe materials from in case they have been completely stonewalled.

Shedbuilder · 02/07/2020 09:08

Ach, Joss, Jess... Anyway, I bet their mums see things like this and the dick pix and wonders what the hell happened.

KindKylie · 02/07/2020 09:04

I'm out to a lot of my local and work friends. I also come across as slightly obsessed and knowing too much when the conversation gets started, as no one else feels the urgency I do. But no one actually thinks anything other than sex is binary and immutable and you can't perform being a woman. All my friends have dc a similar age to mine and can forsee how sport, healthcare and residantials/clubs could be impacted by the current push

I do have one friend who I assumed would get it. I messaged her around the GRA and got a very terse reply that other people's need to be seen as a woman did not diminish her. We've never mentioned it again. She's bright and a mother, she'll get it soon and remember I tried.

NeverTalksToStrangers · 02/07/2020 09:02

I'm pretty much out at work and most people agree. My 20-something nieces and nephew agree too, although one of them used to 'be kind'. She had a tw lecturer too though and I think they used to go on about their brave journey a lot so that helped.

I came out to my siblings recently. My brother completely agreed with me but his dw and my ds were just reiterating the same "but they were born in the wrong body" nonsense. It came up because someone mentioned JKR and initially my 18 yo niece was like "oh you agree with her Shock", but then she listened intently to everything I said so I think I changed her mind. She's a very smart girl, so I'm optimistic.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 02/07/2020 09:01

Yes, the subject has been broached, and everyone is of the mind that
a) adults can do what they want to their bodies, but kids are out of bounds
b) you can't just let anyone into everywhere - they prefer single-sex spaces.

TheShoesa · 02/07/2020 08:59

Shedbuilder

That wasn't Joss, it was Jess (Bradley).
Jess Bradley who self descibes as a 'Non Binary Transwoman' however that is even possible. I thought the whole point of being NB was to not identify as either sex and to be a transwoman was to be male conforming to stereotypes associated with females!

FieldOverFence · 02/07/2020 08:56

I'm not really out at work - very woke american multi-national, so dangerous territory.

Thankfully most of my friends - especially those with kids - are GC as well, apart from a few of the "can't we all be nice to each other" brigade

Haut · 02/07/2020 08:52

Thanks for this thread, I now have a name for it. I'm also gender critical.

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