“We risk imposing a singular idea of what a woman is”

I spend a considerable chunk of time at work taking information from people and translating that to and from technical language.

The non-technical people will use words that have a generic meaning, but the exact same words have a very specific technical meaning. Sometimes the non-techs do mean the narrow confines of the word, mostly they don’t. Sometimes what they say has absolutely no relation to what they technically need, if they went straight to a programmer they would get exactly what they said and then both sides would have no idea what the other one was hacked off about.

Words and common understanding are incredibly important. Deliberate obfuscating of language is powerful and dangerous.

They had a big open comments section asking people if they should moderate them more or what, and again, the main thing people said, including many regular sensible readers, was, how about better articles?

Their solution was not better articles, but no comments (though I noticed a lot of the writers were dropped within the next year.)

Having gone down that path, it seems like they treat more and more controversial issues that way.

AGP doesn't exist - except for the people who define themselves as AGP.

It's the same old story, isn't it? All identities and experiences are valid, except those that don't fit the prevailing orthodoxy. Those identities are hateful lies designed to discredit vulnerable people and incite men to murder.

I can't help but note the similarity to ROGD, not just in the denouncement of detransitioners (and older never-transitioners), but in what might be thought of as the "social contagion" aspect. It's fortunate in a way that the ex is a right grumpy and antisocial old bugger who's never had much interest in finding online communities; he too believes he would have transitioned by now if he'd been encouraged to view his AGP as evidence of womanhood rather than a fetish.

What I get from this is: people use the linguistic frameworks they have access to, to understand their own experiences. If those frameworks are flawed, this is going to cause problems. Control over the language people are exposed to is a very powerful tool.

So many great posts here ladies, I'm exhausted tonight from all the crap I've been reading on twitter.

This forum is like a breath of fresh air right now. If i read sex assigned at birth one more time........i had the panorama prenatal testing done in the first trimester of 2 of my pregnancies. They could tell me the sex of my children accurately even at that stage.

I'm so sick of all these grown adults playing pretend and trying to force everyone to buy it.

@TyroSaysMeow Got it, thank you!

HopeClearwater check the acronym in the post right above yours.

Which version of 'gender conformity' are we adhereing too?
The expectations my grandmother faced were different to what I face, which is different to those that my younger relatives face.
Expectations of young women living in Saudi Arabia are a world away from the expectations of women living in London for example.

The idea that this means that women come in many forms to include males and at the same time denying the biological reality that all women regardless of faith, race, class etc face comes from the position of men who don't see women as fully formed people.

So a woman is defined by how she behaves...? Fucking hell. What the fuck is feminism for if we've ended up back here?

That thread has been deleted, don't know why confused it's weird that we can't talk about the love that can't be named

Is there a way you can say what this is without getting this one pulled? I missed it.

I shared the reddit link with the AGP ex; he said it's bang on the money and he agrees with every point.

That's the bit that always makes me laugh. AGP doesn't exist - except for the people who define themselves as AGP.

It's getting more and more that there are facts and realities that are perfectly obvious, but we're all supposed to pretend not to see them.

I think we should start a petition to get the Guardian to open comments on their transgender-themed articles. It's becoming truly ludicrous.

I really don't think this stuff would stand if they were getting reader feedback on it.

I'm a bit confused, I thought that legally TW weren't allowed in the women's toilets etc at the moment and it has been leaked that the law wasn't going to be changed

I don’t think that there is a law about who can enter public toilets, but I feel sure there are laws around same toilet provisions.

Eg don’t schools have to provide same sex facilities from the age of 8 upwards?

Hopefully someone will know the details of what I’m talking about

Utterly unsurprised that other thread was deleted, although when I went out it was only on 27 posts and they all looked fine to me. Did it go ridiculous?

I shared the reddit link with the AGP ex; he said it's bang on the money and he agrees with every point.

Thereby proving the point of the person who had AGP in the first place.

It's enforced by convention and cultural acceptance.

Lobby groups have made retailers and services frightened that they are breaching the equality act if they enforce sex segregation.

They're not.

I'm a bit confused, I thought that legally TW weren't allowed in the women's toilets etc at the moment and it has been leaked that the law wasn't going to be changed? So these TW who have been safely accessing them (albeit illegally?) up to now without being called out, presumably as they haven't been doing anything inappropriate and have "passed" as women, will presumably be able to carry on doing this as nothing's changing?
I've never seen or heard about anyone challenging any "masculine looking women" in the toilets either, presumably because they weren't doing anything untoward either, (I'm aware that doesn't mean it hasn't happened though) so I expect that (still) wouldn't happen either?

"Because when the Emperors new clothes come off you're left with a middle aged man with a receding hairline and a boner."

it's weird that we can't talk about the love that can't be named

Because when the Emperors new clothes come off you're left with a middle aged man with a receding hairline and a boner.

In my fifties. Rarely "perform femininity". Never had a problem or given much of a shit about any of this until some knobs (literally) tried to squash biological reality with dogma.

Thank you to whoever shared the Reddit thread this morning from the person diagnised with ???.

That thread has been deleted, don't know why it's weird that we can't talk about the love that can't be named

Another day another load of arsewash from the overlords.

D'you know what, I absolutely am going to "judge some people on their behaviour".

I'm going to judge males who won't take no for an answer, who make disingenuous bs "arguments" that have been heard thousands of times before and are still bs, who bleat about "inclusion" which means "centre me and my male sexual needs (or rather wants and preferences) at the expense of your own.

I am going to judge them and I am going to come to the conclusion that they do not understand nor care about boundaries or consent and therefore shouldn't be anywhere near female only spaces.

Once again I do not and will not worship at The Church Of The Great Hairy Prong. Die mad about it.

We wonder what the motives are for women colluding with their oppression.

Look at this utter bilge. It’s like a handbook for the pick me dance.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Domesticity

Nazi germany -
www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z2932p3/revision/5

theconversation.com/why-did-women-vote-for-hitler-long-forgotten-essays-hold-some-answers-134481

Let’s not forget the post WW2 get back in the kitchen British propaganda, the men are back, your jobs are not yours, we are putting barriers in to stop you being employed, disabling the childcare we set up during the war and promotIng the nuclear family and woman as happy housewife and mother. Oh creating “women’s jobs” in the new NHS. Embedded structural inequity dressed up as opportunity.

AllWashedOut
I think this echoes a fear of have about being questioned about my own womanhood. The younger trans women, ultra feminine, much more so than me but much more like other young women (makeup, uplift bras etc). Am I less of a woman? It feels like that to me recently.

Womanhood is not

Measured by your fertility
Measured by your femininity
Measured by external viewers value of your sexual attractiveness
Measured by how you perform role as a mother, life partner, carer, sister, daughter.

Are you an adult human female? Yes - you have achieved womanhood.